Turn on thread page Beta

"From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need" watch

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by objectivism)
    Why do we lock our doors than?
    It doesn't take many to bugger it up.
    There is a famous psychological experiment. Twenty people had a cork on the end of a piece of string in a bottle. Two corks couldn't fit in the bottle's necj togeter. They had twenty seconds to get all the corks out. They nearly always did. People politely waited their turn and lett others go ahead. Then they were offered a small reward if they got their cork out before anyone else. There were a lot of broken bottles as a result.
    You can apply the implications to many topics, including this.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    "State capitalism is defined as capitalism in an environment wherein the capitalist enterprise is a component part of the state bureaucracy and the receivers of capitalist surplus value are state appointed bureaucrats. Many social theorists have classified the Soviet Union and CMEA nations, in general, as state capitalist social formations because most of the GDP in those economies was generated by capitalist enterprises that were within the state bureaucracy and officials in the state bureaucracy were the appropriators of enterprise surplus value. For the most recent and best developed analysis of state capitalism in the USSR, see Class Theory and History by Stephen A. Resnick and Richard D. Wolff. Also, see the following online publication, as another example, State Capitalism by Peter Binns. "

    http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/sga...sm_defined.htm
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    It doesn't take many to bugger it up.
    There is a famous psychological experiment. Twenty people had a cork on the end of a piece of string in a bottle. Two corks couldn't fit in the bottle's necj togeter. They had twenty seconds to get all the corks out. They nearly always did. People politely waited their turn and lett others go ahead. Then they were offered a small reward if they got their cork out before anyone else. There were a lot of broken bottles as a result.
    You can apply the implications to many topics, including this.

    So are you saying that its because of a 'few bad apples' that we lock our doors? How did thes people emerge, after all it was said that 'human nature is basically good'. Are these people not human? Are the corrupt versions? This is the kind of argument i would expect from an advocate of eugenics.
    Did the state make them bad? If so why did it come into being in the first place if all accepted social rules and norms?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Not at all: we need laws and people to enforce them and to lock our doors ['though not always and not everywhere- there really have been plsaces where people didn't steal from each other- most often because there was nohing worth stealing perhaps], but it's worth remembering that laws actually work because most people are honest and obey them nearly all the time. Laws which no-one agrees with soon cease to be enforced because it's impossible.
    Actually, it's astonishing when you think how much of what we do is based entirely on trying to keep peple honest. The amount of economic activity- work- that takes place just to keep people honest is astonishing. People have been talking of forty hours work per week above. I think that in a society where everyone actually behaved perfectly honestly, from a financial view, it would probably only be about fifteen hours work. the problem would be all of the things these honest sincere people would start honestly and sincerely and eventually lethally doing to each other in the rest of their time.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by objectivism)
    So are you saying that its because of a 'few bad apples' that we lock our doors? How did thes people emerge, after all it was said that 'human nature is basically good'. Are these people not human? Are the corrupt versions? This is the kind of argument i would expect from an advocate of eugenics.
    Did the state make them bad? If so why did it come into being in the first place if all accepted social rules and norms?
    Wait---the statement that crime comes from "a few bad apples" is the kind of argument you'd expect from an advocate of eugenics?!? But it's true. Most people aren't criminals, and most criminals have a distinct psychological profile. This is a fact but to point it out is a far cry from advocating eugenics.

    As for Marx, the quote's a terrible idea. Too many leftists cherish a dream in which the masses don't have to work. Where does this come from, the idea that people don't need to work? From the dawn of humanity you had to work to live (or figure out a way to mooch somehow, but in that case you were a drag on society). But Marx's plan leaves "the needy" as irresponsible as the wealthiest capitalist---among other things a glaring inconsistency.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    the quotes not about ppl not working but giving to society what the can and taking what they need.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pepaim)
    the quotes not about ppl not working but giving to society what the can and taking what they need.
    yeah, the point is, you have to work to get what you need.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Wait---the statement that crime comes from "a few bad apples" is the kind of argument you'd expect from an advocate of eugenics?!? But it's true. Most people aren't criminals, and most criminals have a distinct psychological profile. This is a fact but to point it out is a far cry from advocating eugenics.

    But what created that profile - nature or nurtue? Advocates of eugenics say nature, others say one's surroundings, for example, studies show serial killers were exposed to pornogrpahy when young much more than those who are not serial killers.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pepaim)
    the quotes not about ppl not working but giving to society what the can and taking what they need.
    Yeah, but what does society "need"? Just think about it for 2 seconds. Society needs food to be grown & harvested, or slaughtered, preserved, shipped, and stored ... society needs roads to be paved and maintained, bridges to be built, plumbing to work, sewage to drain, garbage to be removed, electricity to flow ... People need doctors when they're sick, lawyers when they have disputes, policemen when they're victimized, etc. etc. etc. For society to run at all, for society to function for 10 seconds, there is a tremendous amount of work to be done. Someone needs to do all that work.

    The quote may concern itself with people "giving to society what they can and taking what they need," but it makes certain assumptions about work in doing so.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by objectivism)
    But what created that profile - nature or nurtue? Advocates of eugenics say nature, others say one's surroundings, for example, studies show serial killers were exposed to pornogrpahy when young much more than those who are not serial killers.
    That's asking why the apples went bad. Sure, if you say it's 100% genetic you've come to the eugenists' conclusion, but that means you've chosen one conclusion among many. Merely saying the apples are bad is not offering a theory on how they got that way.

    Yes, studies have shown there are experiences common to serial killers, etc. They can still be classed as "bad apples" once they're grown up and into their killing careers.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Yeah, but what does society "need"? Just think about it for 2 seconds. Society needs food to be grown & harvested, or slaughtered, preserved, shipped, and stored ... society needs roads to be paved and maintained, bridges to be built, plumbing to work, sewage to drain, garbage to be removed, electricity to flow ... People need doctors when they're sick, lawyers when they have disputes, policemen when they're victimized, etc. etc. etc. For society to run at all, for society to function for 10 seconds, there is a tremendous amount of work to be done. Someone needs to do all that work.

    The quote may concern itself with people "giving to society what they can and taking what they need," but it makes certain assumptions about work in doing so.
    It's not "someone" doing all that work, it's all of us doing our own little bit to contribute to it. People do, for the most part, want to work. We get bored if we don't. Like I said, if you don't want to live in such a society, you don't have to. For this to work, it would have to be on an optional basis. It's also easier on a smaller scale.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Who cares? It's not as though a similar philosophy ever will be adopted somewhere like the UK.
    There will always be imbalances in a pluralistic society, get used to it. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Madelyn)
    It's not "someone" doing all that work, it's all of us doing our own little bit to contribute to it. People do, for the most part, want to work. We get bored if we don't. Like I said, if you don't want to live in such a society, you don't have to. For this to work, it would have to be on an optional basis. It's also easier on a smaller scale.
    But without incentives, most people will take more than they contribute. This is human nature & it has been borne out since Marx's time. I think his outlook in the Communist Manifesto was Rousseauist (even though he would deny this): naive and unrealistic.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I don't know who has voted for yes in theory and reality, but its the worst option....and its doing 2nd best
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Only one of these is a bogus quote, anyone who can identify it can take it as my response to this thread.

    "Being in his quality as a ****** a degree nearer to the rest of the animal kingdom than the rest of us, he is undoubtedly the most appropriate representative of that district." Engels on '*******'.

    "It is high treason to pay taxes. Refusal to pay taxes is the primary duty of the citizen!" Marx on taxes.

    "Give a man a fish; Feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish; Feed him for a lifetime. Let a dumb fool too stupid to feed himself starve to death; Improve the race." Engels on charity.

    "The chief mission of all other races and peoples, large and small, is to perish in the revolutionary holocaust" and "The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way." Marx on the fate of lesser races.

    "The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress." Engels on the fate of the lesser races.

    "...unless we can discover the art of sh****ng gold, there would hardly seem to be any alternative to your extracting something from your relations by one means or another." Engels to Marx - exemplary parasites.

    "This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features." Marx on Jewish features.

    more
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    But without incentives, most people will take more than they contribute.
    Firstly, call me an idealist, but I'm not convinced of the truth of that. Secondly, if they do, there won't be 'more' for them to take - where do you think everything comes from? In order for there to be things, they have to make them.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pepaim)
    Many social theorists have classified the Soviet Union and CMEA nations...
    The soviet Union, however, thought they were a good Marxist nation fulfilling what Marx foresaw.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    There will always be imbalances in a pluralistic society, get used to it. :rolleyes:
    Are you sure you're actually a conservative? Conservatives in Britian have recognised that there are imbalances. They have also reecognised the need to miniomise them as much as possible, not merely to "get used to it".
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    This is how most modern states work, communism is all around us, like all idea the extremes never work or are socially, morally etc correct. However the middle gorund of this idea is simply what we live in today where everyone pays tax of varying amounts depending on how much they earn. In this country the average is 40%. this rewards hard working and the more intelligent inovative of us. A business person can starts his company, work, have and use his/her knowledge of business and make a large profit. he gets to keeps a good deal of his profit which rewards him justly whilst supporting the people who make his profit ie,customers and the working class public
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I debate this with my commie mate all the time.

    Who is going to say what we need and what we dont, its completely unquantifiable.

    In realit all I 'need' is food and water, I dont 'need' a house because homeless people prove you can survive.

    No man or woman has the intelligence or right, to tell another how much they should have, based on need.

    The system we have now is best because people choose what they think they need, sure there are inequalities in our soicety, which I would like to see addrressed. But id rather pick my own 'needs'

    Ridiculous concept. I feel like punching things when commies come out witht his comment.
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: June 24, 2005
The home of Results and Clearing

2,428

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.