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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Have you ever considered the possibility that America is the most powerful country in the world precisely because of the way wealth is distributed?

    And what exactly is the point of being the most powerful country if 5% of people enjoy 80% of the overall wealth? 5% of these people's kids will undoubtly go to the best universities and so on and so forth....that is what you call democracy? Where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    huh? Whats power got to do with it?

    Was wealth evenly distributed when the British Empire was the most powerful in the world?!

    Why is this particular comment made towards Howard, anyway?
    Isnt he from the US? Just guessing from his hometown name...

    p.s it's been 100 years since the british empire was at its strongest...and it was hardly a democracy...here we are talking about a 21st century developed country which prides itself for its democracy...hardly a comparison you would make..
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Isnt he from the US? Just guessing from his hometown name...

    p.s it's been 100 years since the british empire was at its strongest...and it was hardly a democracy...here we are talking about a 21st century developed country which prides itself for its democracy...hardly a comparison you would make..
    In that case, you can't really make any comparisons, given that the U.S is the only super-power...

    Howard is British.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    And what exactly is the point of being the most powerful country if 5% of people enjoy 80% of the overall wealth? 5% of these people's kids will undoubtly go to the best universities and so on and so forth....that is what you call democracy? Where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor?
    Considering that 50% of Americans make over $40,000 a year, I don't think that the poor stay poor. A good portion of the students at the top universities don't have rich parents thanks to generous scholarships, financial aid from the government, and easy access to student loans. Not that this matters; a person that gets a degree from any college will be able to find a well-paying job. And strange that with our private education system and insanely expensive university tuition, a larger portion of Americans than Brits go to university (~45% in the US and ~40% in Britain).

    And what does economic equality have to do with democracy? Last time I checked, it's one man one vote, not one dollar one vote. By your logic, Cuba and North Korea are the most democratic countries in the world.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Considering that 50% of Americans make over $40,000 a year, I don't think that the poor stay poor. A good portion of the students at the top universities don't have rich parents thanks to generous scholarships, financial aid from the government, and easy access to student loans. Not that this matters; a person that gets a degree from any college will be able to find a well-paying job. And strange that with our private education system and insanely expensive university tuition, a larger portion of Americans than Brits go to university (~45% in the US and ~40% in Britain).
    Most of the people going to uni in the US have nothing to do with education in the first place. Some go because they are good for sports, in fact a lot, some others to form the band etc. At the same time the majority of the degrees is even worse than in Britain. The fact is that for the top universities in the US only those who can afford it can go as it is for a lot of other unis whereas in Britain anyone can compete for cambridge and oxford as long as you have the grades.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Considering that 50% of Americans make over $40,000 a year, I don't think that the poor stay poor. A good portion of the students at the top universities don't have rich parents thanks to generous scholarships, financial aid from the government, and easy access to student loans. Not that this matters; a person that gets a degree from any college will be able to find a well-paying job. And strange that with our private education system and insanely expensive university tuition, a larger portion of Americans than Brits go to university (~45% in the US and ~40% in Britain).

    And what does economic equality have to do with democracy? Last time I checked, it's one man one vote, not one dollar one vote. By your logic, Cuba and North Korea are the most democratic countries in the world.
    Thats not what I said and tbh Im not going to waste my time explaining the same things over and over again to the same person who never answers but proceeds to ask questions by putting words in other people's mouth.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Most of the people going to uni in the US have nothing to do with education in the first place. Some go because they are good for sports, in fact a lot, some others to form the band etc. At the same time the majority of the degrees is even worse than in Britain. The fact is that for the top universities in the US only those who can afford it can go as it is for a lot of other unis whereas in Britain anyone can compete for cambridge and oxford as long as you have the grades.
    I'd like you to provide some numbers to back up that nonsense. I'd be surprised if more than 1% of the seats in most universities are given based on the students' performance on sports-related activities.

    Harvard is free for anyone who's parents make less than $40,000 per year, which makes your claim absolutely false.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    in Britain anyone can compete for cambridge and oxford as long as you have the grades.
    Does Harvard refuse to allow students from poor families then?

    when i go to University this year in London, i'll get the minimum £4,000 loan, yet my living costs are £8,000 p/year.

    At an annual shortfall of £4,000, i disagree that education in this country is open to all... In this country you have to be rich, or you have to be poor. There is no middle ground.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I'd like you to provide some numbers to back up that nonsense. I'd be surprised if more than 1% of the seats in most universities are given based on the students' performance on sports-related activities.

    Harvard is free for anyone who's parents make less than $40,000 per year, which makes your claim absolutely false.
    So do tell us how many people from poor families go to Harvard?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Does Harvard refuse to allow students from poor families then?

    when i go to University this year in London, i'll get the minimum £4,000 loan, yet my living costs are £8,000 p/year.

    At an annual shortfall of £4,000, i disagree that education in this country is open to all... In this country you have to be rich, or you have to be poor. There is no middle ground.
    £8000 ??? I dont see how you can spend that much..
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So do tell us how many people from poor families go to Harvard?
    Define poor.

    £8000 ??? I dont see how you can spend that much..
    Rent in London will set you back at least £4000 a year.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Define poor.



    Rent in London will set you back at least £4000 a year.
    Even if we do say thats true..how do you manage to spend another £4000?

    Families and children are defined as poor if family income is below the federal poverty threshold. The poverty threshold for a family of four with two children was $18,850 in 2004, $18,660 in 2003, and $18,244 in 2002. (taken from us website of course )
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Even if we do say thats true..how do you manage to spend another £4000?
    How about food?

    Families and children are defined as poor if family income is below the federal poverty threshold. The poverty threshold for a family of four with two children was $18,850 in 2004, $18,660 in 2003, and $18,244 in 2002. (taken from us website of course )
    According to that definition, only 12% of Americans are poor.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    How about food?



    According to that definition, only 12% of Americans are poor.

    So considering a normal year at uni is 30 weeks you spend £19 a day on food? Wow...also considering that the £4000 is a slight exageration either that or a very expensive rent.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So considering a normal year at uni is 30 weeks you spend £19 a day on food? Wow...also considering that the £4000 is a slight exageration either that or a very expensive rent.
    It's 30 weeks only if you go home during each break, which many people do not. LSE recommends bringing £1000 per month, which doesn't include room and board. Try living by yourself for a year, and then you can tell us that you can survive on less than £8000 a year in London.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    LSE recommends bringing £1000 per month, which doesn't include room and board.
    That figure does actually include accomodation.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So considering a normal year at uni is 30 weeks you spend £19 a day on food? Wow...also considering that the £4000 is a slight exageration either that or a very expensive rent.
    Utter nonsense. I spent £980 a month on rent in london, and that was SHARING an apartment with my girlfriend (EACH).

    The notion that £8000 a year is somehow the expenditure of a spendthrift is ridiculous. You try living in London making £8000 a year...

    And since when was the only expense in this life food and rent? What about transport? Books? Clothing? Heating? Phone bills? Toiletries? Also ---- heaven forbid ... money for going out now and again? Maybe a pint or two?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So do tell us how many people from poor families go to Harvard?
    A large number actually. Harvard has a fairly good socio-economic spread considering that they have a larger number of grants and scholarships than anyone in the UK gets.

    Its also interesting that people ***** about others buying their way in through donations, when actually - its those very donations that enable harvard to take on more children who are unable to pay anything.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    And what exactly is the point of being the most powerful country if 5% of people enjoy 80% of the overall wealth? 5% of these people's kids will undoubtly go to the best universities and so on and so forth....that is what you call democracy? Where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor?
    What's the point?

    Well the fact that the poor in the US are richer than the vast majority of others in this world.

    Additionally you have a warped notion of how the educational system works there. I know HUGE HUGE numbers of very wealthy kids from New England and NY, who attend mediocre liberal arts universities and community colleges. To hear you blabber one would think the majority get into the evil eight as of right, when they simply dont.

    Additionally - go look at the 25-75 spread for Harvard's SATs, or LSATs, or GMATs, or MCATs, - I think youll find they are among the highest in the country. Getting into such schools is still almost exclusively a matter of merit, and graduate school even more so.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Isnt he from the US? Just guessing from his hometown name...

    p.s it's been 100 years since the british empire was at its strongest...and it was hardly a democracy...here we are talking about a 21st century developed country which prides itself for its democracy...hardly a comparison you would make..
    Since when has a democaracy meant communism? Since when has it meant everyone gets 20k a year and a state made toaster? Democracy is about your political power, about your right to cast a vote, to give your two cents. I really dont see how there being a large wealth differential means that there is no democracy in the US... actually its a rather odd comment.
 
 
 
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