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    (Original post by caz)
    You are fighting for a life that never was. How about you fight for lives that already are?
    You don't know anything about me! That is just a 'throw-away' comment.
    Have you not read my posts on this very same thread about my feelings on euthanasia.
    I fight for the lives of all human beings. Do you?
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    (Original post by Elle)
    I think your underestimating the population and the public who are not as stupid as you suggest. Why should people who take the "moral highground" be in a position to dictate what morality means to others?
    This has to be one of the best arguments ever. The point most people try to make, but never directly come out and say. You know, most people who argue with their morals don't understand what you're saying anyway, but nonetheless, very good. Have some rep
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    (Original post by caz)
    This has to be one of the best arguments ever. The point most people try to make, but never directly come out and say. You know, most people who argue with their morals don't understand what you're saying anyway, but nonetheless, very good. Have some rep
    lol.. I was expecting to be criticised for that..
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    (Original post by caz)
    Guilt is not a punishment, nor a consequence. Guilt is conceived, and points to a mistake you have committed in your own beliefs. If you belief life is worthless, you will not have guilt. I don't see how women developing guilt should control law.
    I never said that these feelings of guilt should affect the abortion law :rolleyes: My original point was that pregnant women shouldn't think of abortion as an easy way out when there are other factors like their possible psychological reactions to consider. To ignore this point would be rather ignorant and naive.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    You don't know anything about me! That is just a 'throw-away' comment.
    Have you not read my posts on this very same thread about my feelings on euthanasia.
    I fight for the lives of all human beings. Do you?
    No I do not. I fight for freedom, but I believe there are situations when life should no longer be. I don't believe parents should decide the abortion, actually, because I believe the child could go through adoption. However, the world is overpopulated, and abortion really doesn't harm the person it is aborting, because the person is not yet a "person", really.
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    (Original post by Lucy)
    I never said that these feelings of guilt should affect the abortion law :rolleyes: My original point was that pregnant women shouldn't think of abortion as an easy way out when there are other factors like their possible psychological reactions to consider. To ignore this point would be rather ignorant and naive.
    Not so. I believe anyone can overcome guilt. Considered? Sure, but perhaps what you're making them consider is really more-or-less disapproval.
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    (Original post by Elle)
    I think your underestimating the population and the public who are not as stupid as you suggest. Why should people who take the "moral highground" be in a position to dictate what morality means to others?
    I agree with the second point but i don't think you can take the moral highground unless others let you. You let them by believing it is a moral highground, by secretly either agreeing with waht they say or wishing you had similar morals or even by assuming hteir morals are superior.

    But the public is stupid and fickle. (like me) I am so much more intelligent, i should make all the rules
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    (Original post by caz)
    No I do not. I fight for freedom, but I believe there are situations when life should no longer be. I don't believe parents should decide the abortion, actually, because I believe the child could go through adoption. However, the world is overpopulated, and abortion really doesn't harm the person it is aborting, because the person is not yet a "person", really.
    You accused me of fighting for the lives of the unborn and suggested I fight for the lives of those who have been born. I defended myself by saying that I would defend the right to life for both. So what are you going on about?
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    (Original post by JSM)
    I agree with the second point but i don't think you can take the moral highground unless others let you. You let them by believing it is a moral highground, by secretly either agreeing with waht they say or wishing you had similar morals or even by assuming hteir morals are superior.

    But the public is stupid and fickle. (like me) I am so much more intelligent, i should make all the rules
    Moral is this: Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

    I think it is very easy to say you wouldn't have objected to being aborted. There wouldn't be you to object. Therefore, how can a baby, who cannot yet do unto anything, be considered in moralle?
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    (Original post by JSM)
    I agree with the second point but i don't think you can take the moral highground unless others let you. You let them by believing it is a moral highground, by secretly either agreeing with waht they say or wishing you had similar morals or even by assuming hteir morals are superior.

    But the public is stupid and fickle. (like me) I am so much more intelligent, i should make all the rules
    But what I'm saying is that morals should be something personal. Look at all the wars that have been caused because one religous group is tries to inflict their morals on another.

    lol.. I hope the last part was sarcastic! (?)
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    (Original post by caz)
    Not so. I believe anyone can overcome guilt. Considered? Sure, but perhaps what you're making them consider is really more-or-less disapproval.
    Sure, anyone can overcome guilt. But more than often it turns into depression which may eventually need long term attention in the forms of drugs and therapy. There is nothing wrong with advising someone to consider their actions carefully. This includes thinking about the positive sides of abortion - I am merely pointing out that post-abortion stress is very often ignored when it should be given more attention.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    You accused me of fighting for the lives of the unborn and suggested I fight for the lives of those who have been born. I defended myself by saying that I would defend the right to life for both. So what are you going on about?
    You already said this. I don't understand why you need to reinstate the fact that you fight for the right to both. You asked me a question, in that same response, and so I responded to your question.

    No reason to be ignorant yourself.
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    (Original post by Lucy)
    Sure, anyone can overcome guilt. But more than often it turns into depression which may eventually need long term attention in the forms of drugs and therapy. There is nothing wrong with advising someone to consider their actions carefully. This includes thinking about the positive sides of abortion - I am merely pointing out that post-abortion stress is very often ignored when it should be given more attention.
    You don't believe people who go through abortion think about feeling guilt? They feel guilt going into it. I thought you were trying to get at something else. Nevermind, guess you were just stating the obvious. Sorry
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    (Original post by caz)
    Moral is this: Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

    I think it is very easy to say you wouldn't have objected to being aborted. There wouldn't be you to object. Therefore, how can a baby, who cannot yet do unto anything, be considered in moralle?
    No thats christian-many people base their morals on christianity or another relgious belief, surely it should be on what you believe.

    If i could of, i would of objected to being aborted cos then i wouldn't be able to fulfill my lifes goals (but then i wouldn't have understood about money and status-so mayb i would, but this is a hypothesis).Why did you quote me?
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    (Original post by caz)
    You don't believe people who go through abortion think about feeling guilt? They feel guilt going into it. I thought you were trying to get at something else. Nevermind, guess you were just stating the obvious. Sorry
    No, I wasn't stating the obvious. The image of abortion is constantly turning into one which is only positive. The fact that it is so easy to get an abortion now means that people are less worried about falling pregnant.
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    (Original post by Elle)
    I think your underestimating the population and the public who are not as stupid as you suggest. Why should people who take the "moral highground" be in a position to dictate what morality means to others?
    You expressed surprise that people were protesting about taking the lives of the unborn - I was giving a reason why you might not be aware of the ongoing objections. I did not suggest that people were stupid, that was your own interpretation.
    I am always amused that in matters relating to strongly held opinions, those whose opinions do not conform to the latest social trends are accused on taking the 'moral highground'. It has become tiresomely overused.
    I respect your opinions (although I disagree with them) because you are a fellow human being - please respect mine likewise
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    (Original post by Elle)

    lol.. I hope the last part was sarcastic! (?)
    yep - but i should make all the rules-cos then at least life would be perfect for somebody.
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    (Original post by Elle)
    That's all true.. we have a representative democracy- but these representatives have to reflect public opinion, not decide on their behalf. Britain is ultimatley a democracy and that's what we should be striving for.. despite the fact that Blair is a complete arse who hasn't yet looked the word in the dictionary.
    I didnt say what it should be i said what it was - and blair isnt a complete arse - he did what he believed was just - the main reason the majorty of the population are against his actions is the media

    For example topup fees? - they are actually much better in teh long run and inject much need cash into our university system. At the end of the day he probably knows more than we do about the economics/social benefits and costs than we do. Lets face it he isnt the prome minister because he thought it would be a laugh to wreck the country.....
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    (Original post by JSM)
    No thats christian-many people base their morals on christianity or another relgious belief, surely it should be on what you believe.

    If i could of, i would of objected to being aborted cos then i wouldn't be able to fulfill my lifes goals (but then i wouldn't have understood about money and status-so mayb i would, but this is a hypothesis).Why did you quote me?
    Christianity has truth in it, but religious beliefs are beyond just basic truth.

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is morality, mainly. When you do something you know is wrong, is because you recognize putting yourself in that position and saying you would not want this to happen to you.

    I don't know what I quoted you, I forget. Anyways, what I'm saying is you can't put morals on something that doesn't have morals. One moral is enough to save a life, but no morals is simply passable.

    "Done unto you" is putting yourself in their position. Not necessarily yourself. If you weren't fat you wouldn't care about being fat, but if you were fat, you would not want to be called it.

    My point is, if something has no morals, it has no "life", really.
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    (Original post by Lucy)
    No, I wasn't stating the obvious. The image of abortion is constantly turning into one which is only positive. The fact that it is so easy to get an abortion now means that people are less worried about falling pregnant.
    So now you're suggesting consequences to all fertile women in general? Okay then, this really doesn't have to do with going through with an abortion, but okay.
 
 
 
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