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    "It is impossible to overstate the importance of Margaret Thatcher's Bruges Speech of September 20th 1988. Its effect was dramatic on the debate over Britain's future relations with the fast accelerating process of European integration.

    The Prime Minister's speech was one of vision, clarity and foreboding. She outlined a positive vision of a wider, decentralised and democratic Europe. She attacked the Europe of Delors and in the process reinvented Euroscepticism as an intellectually powerful and popular movement across the political spectrum.

    With chilling accuracy she predicted the stark choice facing Britain with which we have wrestled since. Should Britain be part of a centralised, unaccountable federal Europe or should we use our influence to help create a Europe of independent, freely trading, cooperating nation states?"
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    Which direction do you think would be best for Britain and Europe?
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    The biased language in that question makes it impossible to answer properly.

    That's like saying: Are you happy being swamped with lazy benefit-grabbing asylum seekers or should we stop them coming here?
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    We should try to change things from within i.e. abolish CAP, more free trade etc. But if there is still no success we should leave. It should be fully in Britian's interests or we should leave.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    The biased language in that question makes it impossible to answer properly.

    That's like saying: Are you happy being swamped with lazy benefit-grabbing asylum seekers or should we stop them coming here?
    Are you really unable to form an opinion?

    The profits advertisers must make from people like you... :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Are you really unable to form an opinion?

    The profits advertisers must make from people like you... :rolleyes:
    Look, the quote you highlighted was:

    "Should Britain be part of a centralised, unaccountable federal Europe or should we use our influence to help create a Europe of independent, freely trading, cooperating nation states?"

    I disagree that the EU is currently centralised, unaccountable, or federal, or that the EU constitution would make it so. The question you therefore are actually asking is not what the EU should be, but what it currently is. You can't ask 'what direction should the EU take?' with such a biased source.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    You can't ask 'what direction should the EU take?' with such a biased source.
    Yes i can, get over it.

    Do you want a centralised Europe, or a decentralised Europe, regardless of the current composition of Europe?

    This is simple stuff.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Yes i can, get over it.

    Do you want a centralised Europe, or a decentralised Europe, regardless of the current composition of Europe?

    This is simple stuff.
    Its not simple at all! Do you mean centralised politically? Economically?

    Do you call the current European parliament 'centralisation'? Or by that do you mean getting rid of all national parliaments and giving all power to MEPs?
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Its not simple at all! Do you mean centralised politically? Economically?

    Do you call the current European parliament 'centralisation'? Or by that do you mean getting rid of all national parliaments and giving all power to MEPs?
    What does the following suggest to you?

    a Europe of independent, freely trading, cooperating nation states
    It goes without saying that i am referring to the economic issues, which of course, are intertwined with political issues!

    I don't understand how you always get confused so easily.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    What does the following suggest to you?


    It goes without saying that i am referring to the economic issues, which of course, are intertwined with political issues!

    I don't understand how you always get confused so easily.
    It requires a particular effort to be a thread spoiler. I thought it was a girl and indulged it, but it's a bloke(!) - needs a smack.

    It's fundamentally about freedom isn't it BK? Are the tories clear on this issue? Would they give freedoms and national sovereignty away, if it suited big business and 'economic growth'?
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    You have posed a highly subjective question coupled with a subjective source, which involves many complex political decisions, and are asking for a black and white, polarised response which is impossible unless everyone agrees with your/Thatcher's definition of terms.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    You have posed a highly subjective question coupled with a subjective source, which involves many complex political decisions, and are asking for a black and white, polarised response which is impossible unless everyone agrees with your/Thatcher's definition of terms.
    just hurry up and vote Decentralised, independent nation states.

    or else vote for the 1st option and get ready for ridicule. though, with using north koreas flag, you probably support the first option wholeheartedly.
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    (Original post by technik)
    just hurry up and vote Decentralised, independent nation states.

    or else vote for the 1st option and get ready for ridicule. though, with using north koreas flag, you probably support the first option wholeheartedly.
    Exactly, I can't vote for either because I disagree with the politics of the second, and disagree with the definitions of the first!

    I support the plight of the North Korean people, not their oppressive, Stalinist regime.
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    We need a social Europe. We need to work together on human rights, workers rights, social provisions and an economic strategy which would support this. We should not expect 25 countries to agree to one foreign policy designed to suit fat cats in banks all over Europe.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    We need a social Europe. We need to work together on human rights, workers rights, social provisions and an economic strategy which would support this. We should not expect 25 countries to agree to one foreign policy designed to suit fat cats in banks all over Europe.

    Do you support the tarrifs which supposedly protect workers jobs.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    We need a social Europe. We need to work together on human rights, workers rights, social provisions and an economic strategy which would support this. We should not expect 25 countries to agree to one foreign policy designed to suit fat cats in banks all over Europe.
    quick. get him. hes an integrationalist!
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    We need a social Europe. We need to work together on human rights, workers rights, social provisions and an economic strategy which would support this. We should not expect 25 countries to agree to one foreign policy designed to suit fat cats in banks all over Europe.
    yes!
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    We need a social Europe. We need to work together on human rights, workers rights, social provisions and an economic strategy which would support this. We should not expect 25 countries to agree to one foreign policy designed to suit fat cats in banks all over Europe.
    An economic strategy that offers social provisions and more workers rights? Or growth?

    Amazed to see 12 Conservatives have voted and yet no Lib Dems or Labour supporters. or do we have another case of very confused lefties?
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    United States of Europe is the way forward.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    An economic strategy that offers social provisions and more workers rights? Or growth?

    Amazed to see 12 Conservatives have voted and yet no Lib Dems or Labour supporters. or do we have another case of very confused lefties?
    How can you vote on a biased poll?

    It is actually even more amazing that the same conservatives who are always harping on about national sovereignity are willing to give it up because of the economic benefits. It shows how neoliberal and Thatcherite the conservative party still is.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    It is actually even more amazing that the same conservatives who are always harping on about national sovereignity are willing to give it up because of the economic benefits.
    Which conservatives, where?
 
 
 
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