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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Do you seriously consider smoking in a restaurant a fundamental liberty?
    Hardly comparable to the right of fair trial and so on, is it?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Do you seriously consider smoking in a restaurant a fundamental liberty?

    Its a liberty. Fundamendal liberties are chipped away with gradully by such legislation.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    It appears i value liberty more than others. I think freedom is more important than smoking. Freedom not just for smokers but for businesses and of ALL of us. This legisaltion is just a further step of government interferance.
    Freedom for all of us?

    Well surely absolute freedom would mean that if I wanted to go to a restaurant and not be smoked like a kipper, I'd be free to do that. Yet a smoker could smoke in the same restaurant at the same time, for the sake of freedom.

    Absolute liberty would lead to anarchy.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    It appears i value liberty more than others. I think freedom is more important than smoking. Freedom not just for smokers but for businesses and of ALL of us. This legisaltion is just a further step of government interferance.
    damn barbara castle and her 70mph speed limit.

    governments have "interfered" for centuries. and over the decades everything they've done gradually becomes the accepted norm.
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    I am troubled by the angle you are approaching this, Objectivism.

    How exactly do you define liberty?

    There has got to be SOME control, when the issue is as grave as this.

    I suppose this is comparable to a muderer standing in the middle of oxford street shooting random people. While you might not get a bullet, your risk is significantly increased. But of course, this guy would simply be encouraging personal liberty?
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    (Original post by HearTheThunder)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t86689.html

    So - referendums are fine, unless your self interets dont match the majority, in which case they may mutate into a tyranny. Therefore if most people in the UK want to ban smoking in public, we shouldn't have a referendum because it doesn't reflect your interests and is against 'liberty'. Surely part of our liberty is the right to a full democracy, if the people want it, the people should get it, not the minority who are the ones taking up the most tax money and endangering the rest of us.
    You should read Mill's 'On Liberty'. He advocates that all should be given a certain amount of freedom which no one can take away. Your approch to this is socialist, why do you approch from the collective and not the individual, especailly as we are ALL individuals but not all are part of the majority. I'm tempted to say if 99% wanted to kill the other 1% that would be wrong, though no doubt you will take it out of context.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    You should read Mill's 'On Liberty'. He advocates that all should be given a certain amount of freedom which no one can take away.
    Why should puffing away at a cigarette in a public place be included?

    It is not liberty, it is taking the piss!
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    You should read Mill's 'On Liberty'. He advocates that all should be given a certain amount of freedom which no one can take away. Your approch to this is socialist, why do you approch from the collective and not the individual, especailly as we are ALL individuals but not all are part of the majority. I'm tempted to say if 99% wanted to kill the other 1% that would be wrong, though no doubt you will take it out of context.
    I've read it, and I think what he meant was a certain amount of freedom, so long as it doesn't harm others. I don't think Mill had a fag in a restaurant in mind.
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    governments have "interfered" for centuries. and over the decades everything they've done gradually becomes the accepted norm
    Oh well than this legislation must be right than if it will in the end be accepted as the norm.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    You should read Mill's 'On Liberty'. He advocates that all should be given a certain amount of freedom which no one can take away. Your approch to this is socialist, why do you approch from the collective and not the individual, especailly as we are ALL individuals but not all are part of the majority. I'm tempted to say if 99% wanted to kill the other 1% that would be wrong, though no doubt you will take it out of context.
    Do you base all your ideas on the ideas in other books? Anyway, 99% killing 1% can't be put into the context of democracy as its a morally wrong act, and illegal therefore the 1% would not get killed there... the same can be applied to smoking only the majority is in the right here...
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Why should puffing away at a cigarette in a public place be included?

    It is not liberty, it is taking the piss!
    taking a piss would be frowned upon...but its far less dangerous.
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    Why should puffing away at a cigarette in a public place be included?
    Its a private business, you have no right to interfere in how it is run. If you don't want to support it don't go.
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    (Original post by technik)
    taking a piss would be frowned upon...but its far less dangerous.
    Hey that's liberty, if you want to do it in the middle of a restaurant you should be able to.

    *ahem*
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    (Original post by xx_ambellina_xx)
    I've read it, and I think what he meant was a certain amount of freedom, so long as it doesn't harm others. I don't think Mill had a fag in a restaurant in mind.
    I don't really think objectivism understands the gravity of this health risk... He appears to be brushing it aside, and shifting the focus somehow to liberty...
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Its a private business, you have no right to interfere in how it is run. If you don't want to support it don't go.
    You are putting business above serious health issues?

    The NHS bill is on you...
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    Ok objectivism... picture this, I'm forming a group who throw sharp objects randomly around the room. We like to do this in a restaurant, people are calling for a public ban. But no - it's against our liberties! How dare they! I know it's endangering other people but I should be able to do it if I want to!
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    You are putting business above serious health issues?

    The NHS bill is on you...
    Not if we abolish the NHS
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    I don't really think objectivism understands the gravity of this health risk... He appears to be brushing it aside, and shifting the focus somehow to liberty...
    Not even to liberty though. Rather, a warped interpretation of what liberty means that is flexible to support his points.
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    (Original post by HearTheThunder)
    Hey that's liberty, if you want to do it in the middle of a restaurant you should be able to.

    *ahem*
    ive never been a fan of liberty.

    people need masters to control them.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Not if we abolish the NHS
    Please tell me I read that incorrectly.
 
 
 
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