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    (Original post by che guevara)
    NO, because Auschwitz is the proof of it..

    Ever heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

    Also the proof of the above actions i mention is in the thousands of eyewitnesses, state orders and press clips.
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    There was nothing such as self interest in the soviet Union, and Yuri Gagarin the first man in space, it was the technology which human beings built and they werent selfish.. they had cloths too, everything the same for everyone, and everyone was seen equal..
    :rofl:

    Have you ever been there? The amount of inequality in the Soviet Union was much higher than anything seen in the West. The difference is that economic inequality in the West does not preclude political equality, while in the Soviet Union, political inequality bred economic inequality. The higher your rank in the government bureaucracy or the military, the more access you had to goods and services. The monthly pension of a colonel was higher than the salary received by half a dozen manual laborers. A secretary got paid 50% less than a carpenter. Women were made about 50% less than men (on the same positions); of course women weren't allowed to get high position in the government or the military, so that's a moot point. I doubt you can name a single prominent female Soviet.

    Managers of stores were the only people who didn't have to experience shortages of basic goods, especially clothing (people had one pair of socks and at best two shirts; very few were able to get a single pair of jeans or get shoes more often than once every few years). The exception is of course top-level bureacrats and top military officials who had preferential access to everything.

    Meanwhile, soldiers were treated like absolute dirt. They weren't given enough food to prevent starvation, which led many of them to spend all of their spare time working for officers, in exchange for food. Wives of top military officials (colonels and higher) got access to all food and clothing without standing in lines; wives of lower officers usually had to spend 6 hours or more each day waiting in line for basic goods; wives of soldiers were lucky to get anything more than the bare minimum.

    And before you spew nonsense about succumbing to CIA propoganda, I was born in the Soviet Union and my father was a mid-ranking officer in the military. I can assure you, equality was nonexistent.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    why?
    Make it easier objectif - Why what? :rolleyes:

    Why would they piss themselves etc?

    Absolutely incapable of defending traditions and values challenged by Communism for ex, because these trads and vals have been so derogated for so long by our elites. If they publically espouse anything contrary to todays universalist corporate ideology they wouldn't be occupying senior political or defence positions. How can they defend tradition if they don't believe in it?

    Why do I fear for the West?

    Because our unique and fragile traditions and values have been so derogated by our elites that many believe we really are economic units interchangeable with Zulus or Peshawaris. If tories or Generals publically disputed this deranged fantasy they would be considered deranged fantasists, and tossed into the memory-hole. In the absence of sane tories and sane Generals who would defend the West?

    As is apparent from my sig I rather value the West and it's people.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Synogogues? I don't think there was a single one in my city of 250,000 (roughly 15% of them Jews).

    Exactly, many were closed down apart from a few token ones.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I should add that Soviet anti-Semitism was not merely a response to Zionism; rather it was the reemergence of old-fashioned Russian anti-Semitism. Russians never needed a reason to hate Jews, and recent surveys suggest that 50% admit to being anti-Semitic.

    Ah, but Russians dislike minorities, in general. Look at the Muslim population -Chechnya anyone?
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    Ah, but Russians dislike minorities, in general. Look at the Muslim population -Chechnya anyone?
    Generally true, though don't forget that half of the Soviet leaders were not Russian, and one was not even Slavic.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Generally true, though don't forget that half of the Soviet leaders were not Russian, and one was not even Slavic.

    Yes, that happens quite a bit. Such as Hitler being Austrian and (in a very small part) Jewish, a great deal of past European royalty that inter-married and left their home country to rule another, etc.
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    Yes, that happens quite a bit. Such as Hitler being Austrian and (in a very small part) Jewish, a great deal of past European royalty that inter-married and left their home country to rule another, etc.
    Hitler isn't much of an anomaly since most Germans (and Austrians) considered Austria to be a part of Germany. It's much harder to make that argument about Russia and Georgia.
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    I stick with my previous comment of someone enjoying a game of DA :tongue:

    what are you studying btw?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I should add that Soviet anti-Semitism was not merely a response to Zionism; rather it was the reemergence of old-fashioned Russian anti-Semitism. Russians never needed a reason to hate Jews, and recent surveys suggest that 50% admit to being anti-Semitic.
    If Russians never needed good reason, the wise thing would have been for Jews to leave for Israel, as you point out Russian anti-semitism is nothing new. I'm inclined to believe that racism is universal and eternal, Zionism is a perfectly sensible, maybe the only sensible Jewish response - living with your irrational aggressors is not.

    If Russians never needed reason to hate Jews, did they, or anyone ever have legitimate reason to be anti-semitic (hatred of Jews being one of your own definitions of a-s)? Is anti-semitism always an irrational hatred? I can think of other national enmities which are rational and justified – the frequent Arab-street expression of mistrust of British intention and honesty for example. Don’t we all blame the group for the actions of their leaders or most antagonistic members - excluding Jews from this universal pracice would be anti-semitic, no?

    If you have the time, (I appreciate you’ve been generous before)
    How much has the ‘Oligarch’ controversy contributed to modern Russian anti-semitism?
    How much has David Duke’s expose of ‘Jewish Supremacism’ contributed to modern Russian anti-semitism?
    Is there such a thing as anti-gentilism? Do Jews ever fall prey to the same irrational hatreds and mistrusts that Gentiles evidently do? Any examples?
    If so, why do we never hear about it?

    If not I would seriously propose that we put Jews in charge of the entire world, their unique fairness and impartiality is recommendation enough.

    You'll notice Bizzy that I've used anti-semitism as a term denoting anti-Jewish, contrary to most Semites' inclination, and have used the word Gentile to denote non-Jews, contrary to your view that a group should define themselves. I'm quite the contrarian tonite.

    (Original post by Gwenyth)
    Ah, but Russians dislike minorities, in general. Look at the Muslim population -Chechnya anyone?
    Sweet isn’t it? Gwenyth assumes that awareness of suffering is linked to level of suffering? When the Chechen diaspora controls as much of our press, media and political life as the subversive Palestinians I’m sure our level of empathy will so rise, eh Bizzy?.


    [For my own amusement, tho’ feel free to offer your own estimates, I make educated stabs at the racism (commonly defined) of the most ‘uppity’ minorities and the famously racist White Gentile majority.

    Roughly 60% of Gentile White adults (as judged by the usual, therefore liberal standards) are racist against Blacks, 80% racist against Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims, and less than 1% anti-semitic.

    If I break with standard practice and judge minorities by the same standard as the White-Gentile masses, I would guess that about 80% of Blacks are anti-White-Gentile, 90% anti-P/B/Muslims, and 50% against Jews.

    P/B/Muslims are roughly 80% anti-White-Gentile, 90% anti-Black and more than 99% anti-semitic.

    Jews are roughly 0% anti-White Gentile, 0% anti-P/B/Muslim, and less than 0% anti-Black ].
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    I stick with my previous comment of someone enjoying a game of DA :tongue:
    It's a personality flaw; sue me. :p:

    what are you studying btw?
    Just finished my degree in political science and economics. Will be starting a masters in international relations in a few months. London better be as fun as New York; I don't think I can handle living in a nonmetropolis after living here for so long.
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    Sweet isn’t it? Gwenyth assumes that awareness of suffering is linked to level of suffering? When the Chechen diaspora controls as much of our press, media and political life as the subversive Palestinians I’m sure our level of empathy will so rise, eh Bizzy?.


    [For my own amusement, tho’ feel free to offer your own estimates, I make educated stabs at the racism (commonly defined) of the most ‘uppity’ minorities and the famously racist White Gentile majority.

    Roughly 60% of Gentile White adults (as judged by the usual, therefore liberal standards) are racist against Blacks, 80% racist against Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims, and less than 1% anti-semitic.

    If I break with standard practice and judge minorities by the same standard as the White-Gentile masses, I would guess that about 80% of Blacks are anti-White-Gentile, 90% anti-P/B/Muslims, and 50% against Jews.

    P/B/Muslims are roughly 80% anti-White-Gentile, 90% anti-Black and more than 99% anti-semitic.

    Jews are roughly 0% anti-White Gentile, 0% anti-P/B/Muslim, and less than 0% anti-Black ].
    Glad you're amused (I feel like I've been given a lolly and told to go off and play....hmmmm :p: )

    You seem to have some weird obsession over race, why is that?


    Bismark - cool. I thought about studying political science for a while, seemed like fun.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)

    It is fun for those who are able to put their emotions and loyalties aside when learning the material. What are you studying?
    Just turned 18, so not in uni yet - but at the mo it's between business/law or science (opposite sides of the spectrum, i know , but still making up my mind - girls, we're so indecisive :rolleyes: )
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    Just turned 18, so not in uni yet - but at the mo it's between business/law or science (opposite sides of the spectrum, i know , but still making up my mind - girls, we're so indecisive :rolleyes: )
    Which science? Or is it a combination of all of them? Can't say I like any natural science, but that's just me (and most other normal people :p: ).
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    Concentration in biological/health sciences - if I go in that direction
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    Concentration in biological/health sciences - if I go in that direction
    Is that a prelude to becoming a doctor (medical)? Both of your choices require a lot of memorization. Business law will probably provide you with a much larger salary and give you an opportunity to travel at your employer's expense. Both require an insane amount of working hours and result in a lot of stress. If you don't absolutely love what you're doing, each day will last a very, very long time. But you probably already knew that.
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    there's going to be a lot of ladder-climbing + stress, as you mentionned, either way - so right now, i'm still weighing my options. what about you? something in the poly sci arena?


    (we've done a good job of hijacking this thread - Arthur Oliver might get mad :afraid: )
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    there's going to be a lot of ladder-climbing + stress, as you mentionned, either way - so right now, i'm still weighing my options. what about you? something in the poly sci arena?
    When do you have to decide by? I still have no idea what type of job to choose; that's probably the main reason I'll be getting a masters and not a real job.

    (we've done a good job of hijacking this thread - Arthur Oliver might get mad :afraid: )
    I'm sure Pinochet comes up in both international relations and law courses.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The problem is that there was no place for Jews to go. Some did flee to Poland and Lithuania, but guess what? The tsars took them over.
    The problem with that logic is that Jews lived in ghettos in Russia, and thus had very little (if any) contact with the ethnic Russians. This of course didn't stop the tsar and his henchmen from using Jews as the scapegoat for all of society's ills.
    Yup, understood, but my comment [about the advisability of going to Israel] was in response to yours about the Soviet/Israel era, after it got uncomfortable for some Jews, "I should add that Soviet anti-Semitism was not merely a response to Zionism". Early days of course was Happy Hour for Jews - not so pleasant for Christians.
    It certainly didn't help [the 'Oligarch' controversy] though some of the oligarchs that are alleged to be Jewish are either Jewish only on their father's side (i.e. not Jewish according to Judaism) or reject Judaism all together. The latter applies to Khodorkovsky in case you were wondering.
    I wonder if anti-semitism in such circs isn't simply a mirror of many non-religious Jews still present concern and interest in Jewish welfare?
    Never heard of it [David Duke's book Jewish Supremacism].
    Illuminating about the racism and hypocrisy of many prominent Jews, but limited - no reference to similar supremacist beliefs of other peoples/ideologies, sells very well in Russia.
    Is it related to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Do you think the Protocols are true by the way?
    Not related, Protocols are funny but phoney, this is the Jewish elite in their own words.
    Quite a bit actually, most of it grounded in resentment at being treated as second-class citizens by the non-Jews. From personal experience, it's much more prevelant in older Jews who were persecuted for their identity, than in younger ones who have never experiences a pogrom or a concentration camp. You don't hear about it because the anti-Gentile Jews don't have the power to act on their beliefs.
    That sounds quite rational, anti-semitism is often described as irrational. You can't or won't offer one single example of irrational Jewish hatred of Gentiles - you seriously need to read Jewish Supremacism and pull your head out of your ethnocentric arse.
    Yeah, we all know how pro-Israeli the Guardian, BBC, and most British news in general are. :rolleyes: And you of course make the false assumption that Jewish businessmen care more about Israel than they do about making a profit. If that was so, why are they economically successful? Surely they cannot be ignoring their self-interest while becoming prosperous at the same time?
    Don't read or watch 'em, and didn't realise there are so many powerful Jewish businesspeople (2005 Bizzy ) who might if they choose to, influence the rest of us in favour of their fellow Jews. Live and learn, eh.
    The amount of anti-Semites in Europe is generally considered to be between 20-35%, the most residing in Iberia and Germany/Austria.
    Have the same studies collected figures for anti-Gentilism? Have any? What is the criteria to determine anti-semitism? I suggested earlier that just treating Jews like any other group, criticising and condemning as appropriate would elicit claims of anti-semitism from the ADL/Board of Deputies crowd. Any truth in that?

    Since even an interested party like yourself hasn't ever recognised that sometimes Jews have the same racist tendencies as other people I'll add the link to Jewish Supremacism to my signature - in the interest of increasing religious and ethnic understanding and awareness. Thanks for tipping me off.
 
 
 
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