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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Which aspect of Castro's rule do you admire the most? The continued impoverishment of his country? The murder of all opponents? The conditions that have led hundreds of thousands (if not more) to flee Cuba? The lack of free speech or even elementary democracy? The economic and military support for Marxist guerillas in South America and Africa? The willingness of Castro to start WWIII? I really do want to know.
    Not what he has done. I like his defiant personally. His ability to keep power for so long. As I said I don't agree with the guy. Maybe I should't use word admire for it's more like he's a interesting person.

    - Dexnell
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    That hasn't stopped other countries from helping out - Canada is the number one investor in Cuba.
    That doesn't say much. I doubt Cuba gets as much foreign investment as Haiti, and that's saying something. Do you deny that not being able to trade with the largest economy in the world that's located a few hundred miles away from its shores is not harming Cuba?
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    The Cuban population currently favours the dictatorship? Hmmm and how do you know that? Why not allow them to vote for it then - considering they never have.
    Context is not your thing is it? I said if the US government post invasion was ELECTED like Castro was then it would have been initially welcomed. The ensuing social justice would compensate for the lack of democracy in my opinion (as it has in Cuba) If you read what I have said, I do support democracy in Cuba.

    Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, the EU 25, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand... hmm seems that quite a few have been able to create publicly funded education like Cuba... and have superior standards of living based on international tests.
    How many of those have a free at the point of use health service and free education including university education?
    Thats simply not true.
    What did I say that was untrue?

    As such - one could use that to justify a number of things you probably wouldnt wish to.
    Each example needs to be judged on its merits. Different ends and different means.

    Sorry - but I really must reitterate - the notion that all those trying to get out of Cuba is simply because they are pissed off at how rich they used to be, and that they do this in SPITE of a standard of living that is eviable is sheer fantasy.
    Who said that then?

    Castro has improved the lives of millions of Cubans. They are no longer forced into prostitution and they do not starve to death. Yes, they can't say they would rather have a different government, yes this is very bad and I would like to see democracy. But at the end of the day, people have food in their stomachs, a job to go to and they are safe in the knowledge that society cares and will work cooperatively to help the sick and those in need of education. Overall, a good thing.
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    Northumbrian: Out of interest, would you support enacting Castro's policies through dictatorship in Britain, if they could provide the exact same results?
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    Overall bad...reasons as above...could have been worse tho'...communism applied with typical Caribbean fecklessness...death toll lowered by laziness...Hail the Caribbean!
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    Well, as i am growing older, i am gaining more experience.. and now i know that there are more stupid ppl in this world that i used to think.. these ppl think that Castro has banned the free speech and opresses opposition etc etc..and they all Believe in CIA's false propaganda and Western Media.. People open ur eyes, u r being deceived.. think once before believing in something..
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    Well, as i am growing older, i am gaining more experience.. and now i know that there are more stupid ppl in this world that i used to think.. these ppl think that Castro has banned the free speech and opresses opposition etc etc..and they all Believe in CIA's false propaganda and Western Media.. People open ur eyes, u r being deceived.. think once before believing in something..
    Apparently experience doesn't always transform into knowledge.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    I said if the US government post invasion was ELECTED like Castro was then it would have been initially welcomed.
    When was Castro elected in a free and fair election?

    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    The ensuing social justice would compensate for the lack of democracy in my opinion (as it has in Cuba) If you read what I have said, I do support democracy in Cuba.
    My question - "Why not allow them a vote" was not to you - it was "if the population is in favour of Castro bein gin power why would he not give them a vote to illustrate this fact to the world.?"

    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    How many of those have a free at the point of use health service and free education including university education?
    Lets put it this way:

    Comparable life expectancy, and greater wealth and comparable literacy.

    And if you must know - the answer to your question is pretty much all of them except the US.


    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    What did I say that was untrue?
    That the majority of refugees from Cuba are somehow ex-aristocrats, or are leaving because they want to vote. THe latter is partly true -but additionally MANY of them leave because of their standard of living.

    Have you ever been to Cuba? I have - the way they live aint great... there is more to life than free education and healthcare.


    Castro has improved the lives of millions of Cubans. They are no longer forced into prostitution and they do not starve to death. Yes, they can't say they would rather have a different government, yes this is very bad and I would like to see democracy. But at the end of the day, people have food in their stomachs, a job to go to and they are safe in the knowledge that society cares and will work cooperatively to help the sick and those in need of education. Overall, a good thing.
    Who said this was down to Castro? Who;s to say its not mainly due to a natural progression and advancement that most of the western world has enjoyed - including many of the countries in that region - such as Puerto Rico, Dominica, Cayman, and much of the Caribbean?

    is universal health care a good thing? Sure - yes... is not starving good too? Yes - sure is ... but you assume that this would still be rampant if not for Castro... there is much to make one think otherwise.

    Regardless - its not for me to judge whether their lives are better because of Castro - nor you - its for them ... and since they have no way to vote - they clearly dont - and the fact that they dont leads one to the conclusion that Castro fears their judgement - which implies everything is not as rosy as one many think. Like I said - Ive been there ... it wasnt a place I would like to live. Ever.
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    Well, as i am growing older, i am gaining more experience.. and now i know that there are more stupid ppl in this world that i used to think.. these ppl think that Castro has banned the free speech and opresses opposition etc etc..and they all Believe in CIA's false propaganda and Western Media.. People open ur eyes, u r being deceived.. think once before believing in something..
    For the first time in about 40 years the opposition parties in Cuba were allowed to hold a meeting the other day ... sounds to me like that is supression of freedom of speech. How much free journalism is there in Cuba I ask you?
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    Bear in mind that in Castor's Country of Cuba, Doctors are paid $6 Dollars an hour, I mean , these doctors got education, but they're paid too little bit of money, that's deplorable, he should raise the minimum wage, then he'd see some improvement in terms of poverty and what not.

    - Dexnell
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    Well, as i am growing older, i am gaining more experience.. and now i know that there are more stupid ppl in this world that i used to think.. these ppl think that Castro has banned the free speech and opresses opposition etc etc..and they all Believe in CIA's false propaganda and Western Media.. People open ur eyes, u r being deceived.. think once before believing in something..
    Of course he oppresses opposition it is a one party state. Also only one labour union is recognised, so much for workers rights. If he claims to be for the workers, he has a very odd way of showing it. He does not just oppress people who disagree politically but homosexuals face imprisonment in Cuba.
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    (Original post by Dexnell)
    Bear in mind that in Castor's Country of Cuba, Doctors are paid $6 Dollars an hour, I mean , these doctors got education, but they're paid too little bit of money, that's deplorable, he should raise the minimum wage, then he'd see some improvement in terms of poverty and what not.

    - Dexnell
    Haha.. Again i have to say that u ppl havent seen the world yet.. $6 WOOWWWWWWWWWWW , its really GOOOOD.. I have been to countries like pakistan, India, Iran too many others.. the doctors get paid 1£ a day, it means if its 8 working hours they get 10 pence an hour.. and a labourer gets 30 pence a day.. WHY DO U PPL COMPARE THE WORLD WITH ENGLAND AND USA?
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    Haha.. Again i have to say that u ppl havent seen the world yet.. $6 WOOWWWWWWWWWWW , its really GOOOOD.. I have been to countries like pakistan, India, Iran too many others.. the doctors get paid 1£ a day, it means if its 8 working hours they get 10 pence an hour.. and a labourer gets 30 pence a day.. WHY DO U PPL COMPARE THE WORLD WITH ENGLAND AND USA?
    Doctors in the third world do NOT get paid £1 a day. Thats simply not true - I suggest you see the world.

    Ever been to Africa? The Caribbean? South America? I have been to all of them... I would hazzard a guess I have seen far more of the world than you.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    For the first time in about 40 years the opposition parties in Cuba were allowed to hold a meeting the other day ... sounds to me like that is supression of freedom of speech. How much free journalism is there in Cuba I ask you?
    Cuba has nothing but sugar and a few lil things, but look at life expectansy there..

    have u ever used ur freedom of speech? and has it ever worked?
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    The average wage for a doctor in Tajikistan is US $40 according to http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?R...n=Central_Asia

    hardly a pound a day now is it.

    Why do you bother quoting facts you know to be false?
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    Cuba has nothing but sugar and a few lil things, but look at life expectansy there..

    have u ever used ur freedom of speech? and has it ever worked?
    Cuba has more than sugar.. much more. Like I said - ever been there? I have.

    It has MASSIVE tourism potential, it has cigars, it has rum ... it has more industry potential than most islands in the region...
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Doctors in the third world do NOT get paid £1 a day. Thats simply not true - I suggest you see the world.

    Ever been to Africa? The Caribbean? South America? I have been to all of them... I would hazzard a guess I have seen far more of the world than you.
    HAHA.. u have been there for holiday.. a tourist sees things from a different point of view.. but i have lived there.. i know the capitalist socities in depth.. well My cousin was a skilled labourer, he used to design precious stones in pakistan, he used to work from 6 in the morning till 6 in the evening and had the sallary of 1200 Kaldars or u can say ruppees.. my Uncle was a doctor, he was a surgeon, he got paid 3000 per month.. and i used to work in a fruit market, it was a horrible experience.. but what did u do? had fun for a week, enjoyed the sunny beaches huh?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Cuba has more than sugar.. much more. Like I said - ever been there? I have.

    It has MASSIVE tourism potential, it has cigars, it has rum ... it has more industry potential than most islands in the region...
    its the communism and Castro which has increased the number of tourists.. and u cant run a country's economy on Tobbaco and Rum..
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    (Original post by che guevara)
    its the communism and Castro which has increased the number of tourists.. and u cant run a country's economy on Tobbaco and Rum..
    No its not. THe tourism in cuba is paltry compared to tourism in Jamaica, Tobago, Barbados, Dominica, Bahamas, Antigua etc... the notion that tourism has increased under Castro is crap ...

    ALso - the notion that tourism, rum and tobbaco couldnt support the economy is also wrong. Many of the islands in the region have done it fine... and many with far less than that. You know nothing of the region. Where are you even from?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    No its not. THe tourism in cuba is paltry compared to tourism in Jamaica, Tobago, Barbados, Dominica, Bahamas, Antigua etc... the notion that tourism has increased under Castro is crap ...

    ALso - the notion that tourism, rum and tobbaco couldnt support the economy is also wrong. Many of the islands in the region have done it fine... and many with far less than that. You know nothing of the region. Where are you even from?
    From his last post, I'd say Pakistan.
 
 
 
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