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Castro
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Northumbrian
Par vous-meme
I'm not saying that. I'm saying if it was as bad as you say, they would risk it anyway. Like they do in Iran and China where punishment is, or has been, worse.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying if it was as bad as you say, they would risk it anyway. Like they do in Iran and China where punishment is, or has been, worse.
as bad as I say? I simply say its bad enough that th epeople are likely to choose another system and another leader, and that the evidence for this is that they are refused the choice. Moreover the fact that LARGE NUMBERS - however you look at it - LARGE numbers of people risk their life to get out tells you much also.
Northumbrian
It's his style. He's authoritarian. He doesn't want anyone interfering at all with any plans. Also, it would allow the US a base in Cuba from where they could hamper the revolucion. I say give them the vote.
It's his style. He's authoritarian. He doesn't want anyone interfering at all with any plans. Also, it would allow the US a base in Cuba from where they could hamper the revolucion. I say give them the vote.
He denies them the vote because he wants to retain power. He could allow them to elect a supreme president. If the people really favoured him then he would be returned with supreme power, and not only that, a mandate and international recognition.
he doesnt because he fears the result. I wonder why?
Northumbrian
Military parades do not involve civilians. The million person marches in Cuba are not staged. How many people have staged a million person protest? Me clutching at straws? Pot, kettle, black.
Again you are misinterpreting me. Military parades yes - but with MASS civilian crowds supporting it. In addition to pagants and civilian parades for the "dear leader".
The fact is that the million person protests are in no way reliable - you use it to avoid the point that there are no elections and the implication that has. Whatsmore, whith state run television and no free press you can manipulate people quite well.
Do you recognise that though free the quality of the services in Cuba may not be comparabe to those in the UK US etc etc?
however you look at it - LARGE numbers of people risk their life to get out tells you much also.
he doesnt because he fears the result. I wonder why?
The fact is that the million person protests are in no way reliable
Northumbrian
I do, although I feel the embargo has a lot to do with this.
Considering there is no embargo with any country BUT the US this is a debateable comment. It harms Cuba, but not as much as one might think.
Northumbrian
Yes, millions of Cubans want a different system. But Castro has genuine mass support too.
He may have some. How much though is the question. The fac tthat he refuses to give them a chance to decide for themselves would indicate itisnt a majority.
Northumbrian
They have parliamentary elections. I wonder what the turnout is? I suppose a real figure wouldn't be able to come by.
electing people with no power and with restrictions on who can run, the rallies they can have, and no free press? Elections in form, in no way in substance.
Northumbrian
I'm not avoiding the point that there are no elections. All I am saying is that the natural way of opposing dictators is resistance, and I aint seen a lot of that.
The natural way? Really? Did you see large amounts of protests in Iraq under Saddam? DO you see mass protests in North Korea? Dis you see in in Stalinist Russia?
I tell you when I come back. I'm leaving for Cuba in 22 days!!!
Considering there is no embargo with any country BUT the US this is a debateable comment. It harms Cuba, but not as much as one might think.
He may have some. How much though is the question. The fac tthat he refuses to give them a chance to decide for themselves would indicate itisnt a majority.
electing people with no power and with restrictions on who can run, the rallies they can have, and no free press? Elections in form, in no way in substance.
The natural way? Really? Did you see large amounts of protests in Iraq under Saddam? DO you see mass protests in North Korea? Dis you see in in Stalinist Russia?
NK - As I said, footage is hard to come by, how would we know?
We certainly saw protests all over the USSR which led to its downfall.
Northumbrian
But the US stops other countries doing trade with them. This is why there are no spare parts for many things.
Doesnt stop Canada, China, South America, the EU, India, Australia, the Caribbean... pretty much just the US.
Northumbrian
Well, we certainly do not know for certain. But going with Lenin's theory of an unpopular regime will fall unless it has external supprt, he does have majority support. Of course, I'm sure you do not align yourself with Lenin though
Myanmar? Dionysus of Syracuse?
Its plainly false...
Besides that is sort of evading the point - "we can never know for sure"... well of course we cant, but the evidence sure doesnt look good for your contention.
As to Lenin... I love him... cant get enough of him.
Northumbrian
I was wondering more a bout turnout, something which would indicate levels of support for the system PERHAPS.
Like Saddam's 100% turnouts?
Northumbrian
Er... I did see a civil war with the Kurds in Iraq and a substantial revolt from the south so yes actually.
Only with external assistence.
Northumbrian
NK - As I said, footage is hard to come by, how would we know?
We have decent enough intel to be able to know if there were large scale popular uprisings. We dont need CNN to tell us.
Northumbrian
We certainly saw protests all over the USSR which led to its downfall.
Eventually - not during Stalin's time.
As to Lenin... I love him... cant get enough of him.
Myanmar?
Like Saddam's 100% turnouts?
Only with external assistence.
Eventually - not during Stalin's time
Northumbrian
Many people give a lot of economic support to the generals.
What constitutes external support?
Northumbrian
As I said before, a real figure would be hard to come by.
Not really relevant - point is they are denied a choice - its impossible to portray it as tacit support for Castro. I actually cant quite believe you would try to.
Northumbrian
Really? I thought we left the southerners to be slaughtered.
The entire reason they were able to rise at all was the fact that Saddam's army was wrecked. If the US hadnt invaded they wouldnt have been able to rise at all, and moreover they wouldnt have chosen to.
Northumbrian
Things do take time. We only started to see demonstrations aginst the Ayatollahs after about 10-15 years. The Nazis weren't in long enough!
But there were no demonstrations during Stalinist Russia were there?
What constitutes external support?
Not really relevant - point is they are denied a choice - its impossible to portray it as tacit support for Castro. I actually cant quite believe you would try to.
The entire reason they were able to rise at all was the fact that Saddam's army was wrecked. If the US hadnt invaded they wouldnt have been able to rise at all, and moreover they wouldnt have chosen to.
But there were no demonstrations during Stalinist Russia were there?
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