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    Anyone going for the main demo 2nd july? or the other mainish one 6th? Anyone for the whole week??

    Joe
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    richardandr we wud b better off without ur careless comments - please bother writing sumthing useful - i believe its a good thing to protest hten politicians reliase the importance of the situation - saying that politicians dont care - ur admitting that ur leaders dont care bout pverty etcc - then y vote for them,
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    Perhaps he didn't vote for them.
    And he is right, the demonstrators are completely misguided.
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    you think everyone is an 'idiot' or 'pathetic' though...

    As for Geldof, i would imagine he has a far greater grasp of the realities of poverty, famine and africa than yourself, myself, or pretty much anyone here.
    There was a great biographical program on him the other day which showed this fantastically.
    It also showed the one bad side to him - he never gives the due credit to his PARTNER in band aid stuff Midge Ure.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    you think everyone is an 'idiot' or 'pathetic' though...

    As for Geldof, i would imagine he has a far greater grasp of the realities of poverty, famine and africa than yourself, myself, or pretty much anyone here.
    There was a great biographical program on him the other day which showed this fantastically.
    It also showed the one bad side to him - he never gives the due credit to his PARTNER in band aid stuff Midge Ure.
    The one bad side in him?

    You say he has a greater grasp of the realities of poverty. That may be but he does not in any way have a grasp of global economy and how to solve world poverty. What is his great idea? Cancel African debt? This will in no way lighten the burden on ordinary people because it is the African governments who are in debt. With their history of corruption and misuse of aid money, do you really think that they will decide to spend the money freed up on their population? Or perhaps a new palace or a couple of helicopter gunships..
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    (Original post by richardAndr)
    whereas he is just an ageing rockstar, who was even **** at that, and knows absolutely nothing.
    And as we know aging rockstars should jsut sit back and draw in fresh faced kids like Mick jager rather than bothering the world.


    (Original post by TheVlad)
    You say he has a greater grasp of the realities of poverty. That may be but he does not in any way have a grasp of global economy and how to solve world poverty. What is his great idea? Cancel African debt? This will in no way lighten the burden on ordinary people because it is the African governments who are in debt. With their history of corruption and misuse of aid money, do you really think that they will decide to spend the money freed up on their population? Or perhaps a new palace or a couple of helicopter gunships..
    Im sure this is a superifical argument, But shouldnt we at least give him some credit that hes actually trying to highlight the problems of poverty and pushing society in a positive direction. Everyone keen to jump on the wagon to point out what hes doing wrong. A little support goes a long way.
    (Didnt I hear that profit from the concert wasnt going to be be given to the african goverments because there so corrupt?)
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    (Original post by Hanzing)
    Im sure this is a superifical argument, But shouldnt we at least give him some credit that hes actually trying to highlight the problems of poverty and pushing society in a positive direction. Everyone keen to jump on the wagon to point out what hes doing wrong. A little support goes a long way.
    (Didnt I hear that profit from the concert wasnt going to be be given to the african goverments because there so corrupt?)
    That's the thing, he isn't pushing society in the right direction, at all. Over the past 30 year a trillion US dollars have been given in aid to Africa. And what has that continent got to show for it? If anything, poverty has got worse over this period.
    Perhaps it is time to learn that giving people handouts does not work and other methods of fighting poverty should be tries. Like free trade for example.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    Perhaps he didn't vote for them.
    And he is right, the demonstrators are completely misguided.

    cough tory lol misguided cough

    so had to get that out. In some ways the majority of protestors tot his G8 are misguided. They think that throwing aid at africa should work. It goes much deeper than that. Theres debt (not just governemnt debt but more importantly 2/3 of all debt which is privately owned by banks), corrupt governments, trade regulations and aid which need to be changed.
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    Anyway Geldof has the wrong approach. Throwing aid at africa will not work. Unless capitalism is abolished, there will always be poverty. Capitalism is the root of poverty.

    Live aid raised 100's of thousands of pounds for countries facing extreme poverty across the world, such as africs, yet decades later the situatuion is exactly the same, infact worse, than before.
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    (Original post by Joe_4001)
    Anyway Geldof has the wrong approach. Throwing aid at africa will not work. Unless capitalism is abolished, there will always be poverty. Capitalism is the root of poverty.

    Live aid raised 100's of thousands of pounds for countries facing extreme poverty across the world, such as africs, yet decades later the situatuion is exactly the same, infact worse, than before.

    Africa is poor because it lacks capitalism and is dominated by corruption and protectionsim. If it wants to prosper it must open up like the East Asian Tyger econmies. They did it, so can Africa. Investment will occur if stable property rights are given as companies will feel safe. Also more capitalism is needed for example the abolition of CAP.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    That's the thing, he isn't pushing society in the right direction, at all. Over the past 30 year a trillion US dollars have been given in aid to Africa. And what has that continent got to show for it? If anything, poverty has got worse over this period.
    Perhaps it is time to learn that giving people handouts does not work and other methods of fighting poverty should be tries. Like free trade for example.

    Ok lets throw some facts at you...


    ONE billion people around the world live on less than ONE dollar a day

    Half the world -- nearly three billion people -- live on less than two dollars a day

    The US government spends less than ONE percent on overcoming global AIDS and poverty

    The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the poorest 48 nations (i.e. a quarter of the world’s countries) is less than the wealth of the world’s three richest people combined

    Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names.

    Less than one per cent of what the world spent every year on weapons was needed to put every child into school by the year 2000 and yet it didn't happen

    20% of the population in the developed nations, consume 86% of the world’s goods

    The lives of 1.7 million children will be needlessly lost this year [2000] because world governments have failed to reduce poverty levels

    30,000 children die each day due to poverty






    Global Priority $U.S. Billions


    Basic education for everyone in the world 6
    Cosmetics in the United States 8
    Water and sanitation for everyone in the world 9
    Ice cream in Europe 11
    Reproductive health for all women in the world 12
    Perfumes in Europe and the United States 12
    Basic health and nutrition for everyone in the world 13
    Pet foods in Europe and the United States 17
    Business entertainment in Japan 35
    Cigarettes in Europe 50
    Alcoholic drinks in Europe 105
    Narcotics drugs in the world 400
    Military spending in the world 780
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Africa is poor because it lacks capitalism and is dominated by corruption and protectionsim. If it wants to prosper it must open up like the East Asian Tyger econmies. They did it, so can Africa. Investment will occur if stable property rights are given as companies will feel safe. Also more capitalism is needed for example the abolition of CAP.
    Sorry but have you seen the state of some east asian countries after they did this?

    Take china, many people are poor (not in poverty but poor) many find it hard to make a living. There is so much pollution people have to wear masks in the streets and even go to oxygen booths in the streets. The environment has been completly ruined. Plus this is not a complete pull out fo poverty. China had to privatise lots of public services.
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    [QUOTE]
    (Original post by Joe_4001)
    Sorry but have you seen the state of some east asian countries after they did this?

    I said East Asian Tyger economies, China is not one. Rather Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan.

    Take china, many people are poor (not in poverty but poor) many find it hard to make a living. There is so much pollution people have to wear masks in the streets and even go to oxygen booths in the streets. The environment has been completly ruined. Plus this is not a complete pull out fo poverty. China had to privatise lots of public services.
    China is improving everyday as it opens up to capitalism. The income of a Chinese city dweller has increased from 40 to 657 dollars in 10 years while in the coutryside it has increased from 16 to 259 dollars.40 years ago 30 million died of famine now they have more than enough food. Privatisation has been good, it has done away with the public sectory monopoly thus efficiency has achived as the profit motive now exists.

    On the issue of pollution, what would you do? Say to the third world, we in the west polluted to become rich, but you can't. Pollution would be far less if China was more capitalist as there would be more private property and so more of an incentive to look after the environment. People in third world states i.e those who don;t have capitalism, don;t have time to look after the environment because they are too busy worrying about their next meal thanks to protectionst polices and corrupt leaders.
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    [QUOTE=objectivism]


    I said East Asian Tyger economies, China is not one. Rather Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan.



    China is improving everyday as it opens up to capitalism. The income of a Chinese city dweller has increased from 40 to 657 dollars in 10 years while in the coutryside it has increased from 16 to 259 dollars.40 years ago 30 million died of famine now they have more than enough food. Privatisation has been good, it has done away with the public sectory monopoly thus efficiency has achived as the profit motive now exists.

    On the issue of pollution, what would you do? Say to the third world, we in the west polluted to become rich, but you can't. Pollution would be far less if China was more capitalist as there would be more private property and so more of an incentive to look after the environment. People in third world states i.e those who don;t have capitalism, don;t have time to look after the environment because they are too busy worrying about their next meal thanks to protectionst polices and corrupt leaders.
    If china was more privatised, fat cat owners would have no incentive to look after the land or environment. So long as they can exploit workers and make as much profit as possible, why should they worry?

    Like Karl Marx said, to achieve socialism you must go through stages, one of the first being capitalism. Capitalism has improved the economy, now it is time foe a fairer system. One which doesnt allow millions of people to die whilst a few hundred live in luxury.
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    [QUOTE]
    (Original post by Joe_4001)
    If china was more privatised, fat cat owners would have no incentive to look after the land or environment. So long as they can exploit workers and make as much profit as possible, why should they worry

    Because in capitalism people are free to start up businesses, someone can come along and challenge them, thus they have an incentive to provide good wages for example why does Nike give double the average wage in Vietanam, why did Ford give wages of 5 dollars to his workers, way above the average wage. Governments use force to maintain control, in capitalism force is dispersed.

    Exploit workers? Wages are improving as i showed before.

    Like Karl Marx said, to achieve socialism you must go through stages, one of the first being capitalism.
    Its actually one of the last, also that is to achieve communism.

    Capitalism has improved the economy, now it is time foe a fairer system.
    Thats what the trickle down effect creates in practice.

    One which doesnt allow millions of people to die whilst a few hundred live in luxury.
    Millions of people to die? The great famines of the 20th century were in communist coutries, not capitalism. Communism does not work in practice because it depends on a concetration of knowledge and does not have a single unit to indicate what products are needed i.e prices. You should read von Mises and Hayek.
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    I recently received negative rep from soneone for posting the above comments. Why do people not debate if the think they are so right? Why go and give neg rep without, rather cowardly, leaving one's name?
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    I recently received negative rep from soneone for posting the above comments. Why do people not debate if the think they are so right? Why go and give neg rep without, rather cowardly, leaving one's name?
    What are the warnings for?
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    What are the warnings for?
    For making the argument that comp students are less able, in my opinion it is perfectly valid, given GCSE results.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    For making the argument that comp students are less able, in my opinion it is perfectly valid, given GCSE results.
    It should be quite obvious that that is the case... considering that the more able students who passed their 11+ often tend to go to grammar schools rather than comprehensives.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    It should be quite obvious that that is the case... considering that the more able students who passed their 11+ often tend to go to grammar schools rather than comprehensives.

    Exactly. Jamie has said in a post he went to a comp so i wonder if there is a little bias in that decision?
 
 
 
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