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    Something needs to be one to further the emancipation of women in Saudi Arabia. I believe they have to wear clothes which cover nody shape (no headscarfs I don't think) they can' vote, can't drive and can't even go out unaccompanied by a male relative. This backward attitude which seems to stbbournly remain in many Arab countries (especially the original Arab countries) is a disgrace and needs to be resolved.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    This backward attitude which seems to stbbournly remain in many Arab countries (especially the original Arab countries) is a disgrace and needs to be resolved.
    How?
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    Why?
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Why?
    Because our access to vital energy resources will be in danger if these people are able to come to power, even if it's through the democratic process.
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    (Original post by bISMARCK)
    Because our access to vital energy resources will be in danger if these people are able to come to power, even if it's through the democratic process.
    As a child of nature I really can't see why a natural resource such as oil shouldn't belong to the fellas with the technology and skill to claim and utilise it. Survival of the fittest and all...

    Even if we allow that Arab princes or Mad Mullahs are entitled as a fluke of birth location and status or 'democracy' to claim some rights over a natural resource that they cannot themselves even touch, I would expect that greed would dictate they be willing to sell the stuff on the market?

    If none of the parasitic Princes or politicos are willing to sell the stuff, I would argue we have a right to simply walk in and take it anyway, killing any child-brider who gets in our way (in fact I would argue we have the right anyway), but either way I can't see any connection with the ladylike dress of respectable Arab women, which the non-English 'Northumbrian' Iranian/Palestian is rapping about.
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    How do you suppose we would protect oil pipelines running for thousands of miles in hostile territory that consists mostly of desserts and more desserts? We can't even protect the pipelines in Iraq.

    Oh, and I thought you were against fighting wars for selfish reasons?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    How do you suppose we would protect oil pipelines running for thousands of miles in hostile territory that consists mostly of desserts and more desserts? We can't even protect the pipelines in Iraq.

    Oh, and I thought you were against fighting wars for selfish reasons?
    I don't think it's selfish if we claim a natural resource that our society alone can harvest. I don't think it's our starting wars if we attempt to harvest the oil, it would be the Arab's belligerence at attempting to stop us which started a war - their selfishness, their fault.

    Nothing to do with ladylike dress or sensibly sexist driving laws.
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    Well, as the UN representative for Saudi Arabia I suppose that I have to say something. I agree that Saudi women should be much freer than they are, but I think that the Saudi princes are making moves towards this. I am pleased to see that the Saudis are slowly making moves towards democracy as well, with there being elections for the municipal government of Riyadh. I would also like to see the influence of the mutaween (religious police) reduced, and Saudi Arabia move away from its welfare state status, which in the long run can only do damage to the country and foist a culture of dependancy upon it. The country should crack down on groups funding Islamic terrorism and try to prevent the flow of money from wealthy individuals to groups like al-Queda.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    This backward attitude which seems to stbbournly remain in many Arab countries (especially the original Arab countries) is a disgrace and needs to be resolved.
    Sounds like a job for the US Marine Corp.
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    Because our access to vital energy resources will be in danger if these people are able to come to power, even if it's through the democratic process.
    Ah, whatever happened to compassionate Conservatism? We need to resolve this because it is inhumane.

    We should stop supporting the House of Saud and back democracy movements.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Ah, whatever happened to compassionate Conservatism? We need to resolve this because it is inhumane.

    We should stop supporting the House of Saud and back democracy movements.
    As already mentioned, the Saudis are carefully developing their political processes in the direction you recommend.

    The massive and often unwelcome effect of western influence on non-western societies is something I think we should try and control, rein in, not deliberately extend. We're a big ugly bear as is, no need to be a bear on a mission.

    Democracy in that part of the world really could backfire anyway, unless we're talking the usual puppet-democracies.
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    As already mentioned, the Saudis are carefully developing their political processes in the direction you recommend.
    Elections to elect half a parliament that has no powers and women aren't allowed to vote? Great.
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    Evolution not Revolution? Great.
    :party:
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    Snide concessions to half the population.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Elections to elect half a parliament that has no powers and women aren't allowed to vote? Great.
    They are slowly moving towards democracy. True, I would like to see it move faster as well, but if you take away support from the House of Saud the regime will collapse and a theocracy like Iran or worse will emerge. You can't just usher in changes overnight you know. Saudi Arabia has never had true democracy before, although it has had some sort of Bedoiun style one. If you overturn a thousand years of tradition overnight, then sparks will fly and Saudi Arabia will implode, making the rest of the Middle East a hellhole for the next twenty years. The best way to bring about democracy is slow, gradual change. Is your dislike of the Saudi government based on the fact that it is a monarchy?
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    They are slowly moving towards democracy. True, I would like to see it move faster as well, but if you take away support from the House of Saud the regime will collapse and a theocracy like Iran or worse will emerge. You can't just usher in changes overnight you know. Saudi Arabia has never had true democracy before, although it has had some sort of Bedoiun style one. If you overturn a thousand years of tradition overnight, then sparks will fly and Saudi Arabia will implode, making the rest of the Middle East a hellhole for the next twenty years. The best way to bring about democracy is slow, gradual change. Is your dislike of the Saudi government based on the fact that it is a monarchy?
    Even Iranian democracy is better, but since America doesn't like Iran.....
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Even Iranian democracy is better, but since America doesn't like Iran.....
    Well I meant Iran under Khomeni, but I think that Saudi Arabia is slowly and gradually moving towards democracy. We should encourage Iran to do the same. I don't think that withdrawing support from the Saudi government is in all likely hood going to make things better, indeed it will mean the collapse of Saudi Arabia into civil war and a tornado of revolution sweeping through the Middle East, bringing to power radical theocratic governments and likely plunging the region into war for the forseeable future. And imagine the effect it would have upon the West, not least due to oil prices going through the roof.
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    Is your dislike of the Saudi government based on the fact that it is a monarchy?
    No. My main gripe is their disgraceful treatment of women. Second their interpretation and enforcement of Shariah law.

    How long as the west fully supported the House of Saud? For ages. Only now people have started criticising the relationship have the liked of the Saudi Princes decided to give a lame concession to extend their period of unscrutinised rule. I do not believe Saudi Arabia is moving towards democrac no more than I believe the Iranian elections showed the Ayatollahs are moving any closer to democracy. It's all a charade.

    I have to say, if western foreign policy hadn't been so hostile to Arab and muslim countries, the theocrats wouldn't be in such a strong position. And to be honest, women under Khomeini had more rights.
 
 
 
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