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    (Original post by Howard)
    Actually, the Ten Commandments were handed down to Moses who was a jew. I fail to see how the Ten Commandments hanging in a court room is "interfering" with the law. Are all the judges saying "well, the law says this but the law can go get screwed because God said this to Moses?"
    I completely agree. Unless the Ten Commandments are being referenced or read aloud in the courtroom, their presense is not a violation of the separation of church and state. Most sensible people would just ignore some form of decorative display that they deem offensive--I know that's what I always do when I have to look at tacky Christmas decorations.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Actually, the Ten Commandments were handed down to Moses who was a jew. I fail to see how the Ten Commandments hanging in a court room is "interfering" with the law. Are all the judges saying "well, the law says this but the law can go get screwed because God said this to Moses?"
    So youd be ok with a large wooden cross above the court room, the saying of mass before, the passing out of communion waffers and the use of "Praise be to Jesus christ our svaiour" at the end of every sentence? (aside from the fact it might be annoying )
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    They seem very out dated to me and complete pointless in terms of modern law. The number of people who actualy obey and care about them in the manner intended IMO is very small and hence them being in a courtroom seems abit of a token jesture. As is the decision to remove them. It will have litte or no effect on the way law is run in America.
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    Can someone tell me - as I have asked already - how they are the foundation of our modern law?

    Dont steal, dont murder ... thats 2 out of eight ... the other 8 arent part of the law at all, unless you count adultery as being part of divorce proceedings...
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Can someone tell me - as I have asked already - how they are the foundation of our modern law?

    Dont steal, dont murder ... thats 2 out of eight ... the other 8 arent part of the law at all, unless you count adultery as being part of divorce proceedings...
    I'm not answering the question, as I'm not inclined to believe that they are a foundation of law, but you could also consider parental control of minors to be something of an offshoot of "honor thy father and thy mother."
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I'm not answering the question, as I'm not inclined to believe that they are a foundation of law, but you could also consider parental control of minors to be something of an offshoot of "honor thy father and thy mother."
    The problem with all this is that none of that is a product of the ten commandments - its the other way around. Such things as no murder, no theft, no lying, honouring your parents, no envy, worship "this god(s)" not unapproved ones, etc etc were all about before the torah. The fact is the commandments are a product of society not society a product of them
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    The problem with all this is that none of that is a product of the ten commandments - its the other way around. Such things as no murder, no theft, no lying, honouring your parents, no envy, worship "this god(s)" not unapproved ones, etc etc were all about before the torah. The fact is the commandments are a product of society not society a product of them
    I agree with you, but why is displaying a such product of society, while not endorsing or enforcing its rules, unacceptable in a courtroom, then?
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I agree with you, but why is displaying a such product of society, while not endorsing or enforcing its rules, unacceptable in a courtroom, then?
    Because it is impossible to display it without seeming to be endorsing its rules, and more importantly its divine providence.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    The problem with all this is that none of that is a product of the ten commandments - its the other way around. Such things as no murder, no theft, no lying, honouring your parents, no envy, worship "this god(s)" not unapproved ones, etc etc were all about before the torah. The fact is the commandments are a product of society not society a product of them
    That maybe but those religious among us which does not inculde me would I think challenge that. It may of been around before in Society before but it did not have God's offical blessing as the right thing to do before the commandments as far as I know.
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    (Original post by material breach)
    That maybe but those religious among us which does not inculde me would I think challenge that. It may of been around before in Society before but it did not have God's offical blessing as the right thing to do before the commandments as far as I know.
    Yes but to take that line you have to assume the validity of a religious belief - that is not the place of government.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Yes but to take that line you have to assume the validity of a religious belief - that is not the place of government.
    Agreed, both as a point and as a personnel view. However that doesn't go down well with the spirt of those think its their mission to save us which America has its fair share of.
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    (Original post by material breach)
    Agreed, both as a point and as a personnel view. However that doesn't go down well with the spirt of those think its their mission to save us which America has its fair share of.
    Oh indeed... but thats the same notion that is behind the Islamic revolution in Iran... God says X, thus we must ensure than Society makes us do X regardless of the fact that other's dont believe that same thing ...
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I agree with you, but why is displaying a such product of society, while not endorsing or enforcing its rules, unacceptable in a courtroom, then?
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

    I will have to say I agree with Lawz and not Howard or Satori.

    As an american who is not christian-jusiac-islamic (but not an atheist) I think that putting up the ten commandments send the message that the courts in question are showing a STRONG PREFERENCE to the religions of the particular document.

    I would feel the same way if we put the Bhagavad Gita , Ang-pravistha Agams, Adi Granth, or teachings of Bodhidharma.

    The bottom line is US courts should be totally nuetral ground.

    There is no need to be vigilant when printing currency that states "In God we Trust" , becuase that is vague, does not "respect an establishment of religion" outright. It's harmless, and it only hints at the general outlook of our founders, who believe that FREEDOM of religions (all) should be preserved.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Oh indeed... but thats the same notion that is behind the Islamic revolution in Iran... God says X, thus we must ensure than Society makes us do X regardless of the fact that other's dont believe that same thing ...
    Quite and the exact reason I am pleased that state and religion are not wooven closely like they are there.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Because it is impossible to display it without seeming to be endorsing its rules, and more importantly its divine providence.
    Endorsing its rules in a moral sense is not the same as endorsing them in a religious sense, though. I know of many people who appreciate the ten commandments as basis of ethical behavior, yet do not adhere to the religious aspect of it. Your determination depends upon the individual giving the document greater meaning than it inherently possesses.
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    (Original post by djchak)
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
    Please explain to me how a framed sheet of paper establishes a religion.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Endorsing its rules in a moral sense is not the same as endorsing them in a religious sense, though. I know of many people who appreciate the ten commandments as basis of ethical behavior, yet do not adhere to the religious aspect of it. Your determination depends upon the individual giving the document greater meaning than it inherently possesses.
    But satori - they CLEARLY are promoting the religious elemtns of it. Do you really think that they have a SECULAR objection to working on the Sabbath? What possible reason could there be other than that "god said so"?

    Too many of the ten commandments are inherently religious - lets try the first one for starters. How do you endorse "I am the lord thy God, thou shall worship no other God before me" in a moral but yet secular sense?
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Endorsing its rules in a moral sense is not the same as endorsing them in a religious sense, though. I know of many people who appreciate the ten commandments as basis of ethical behavior, yet do not adhere to the religious aspect of it. Your determination depends upon the individual giving the document greater meaning than it inherently possesses.
    But by defualt you are showing a preferance for it over other religions, jsut like if there was 10 Shintoist writings there...you might agree with them in a non religious way, but the bias is still evident....
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Please explain to me how a framed sheet of paper establishes a religion.
    Thats the rub. From a legal stand point it may be difficult to argue that it contravenes the constitution as it doesnt amount to passing a law.

    However I think that the qurestion about whether government should be seen to favour on ereligion over another or religion over no religion is ill advised. A government is supposed to represent all people. How can you possibly represent Hindus and at the same time promote the beliefs of another religion?
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Please explain to me how a framed sheet of paper establishes a religion.
    Don't be obtuse. The ten commandments was handed to moses from god (in context of what they believe) , so it's clearly a religous document. It's not a Trapper Keeper with blank pages...
 
 
 
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