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    I never once said London did not have social problems. My point is that if you don't face up to reality you can't make things better.
    Well that wasn't what you said, clearly the orginial comment was made in a negative way. And I simply pointed out, from my house where I can see to Saddleworth, it is very nice,


    They are wrong to think that. Its a party for hard working people who make it on their own, just look at the backngrounds of Heath, Thatcher, Major, Hague, Howard. All came from humble backgrounds and have achieved great things. David Davis, most likely the next leader, grew up on a council extate. Whereas look at Labour - Blair, Wilson, Foot, all came from wealthy backgrounds.
    That may be true, and I already knew that but it doesn't alter the perception, saying I'm from a council estate doesn't mean people won't percieve tax cuts, (and I know about trickle down, I'm not disputing the theory.) as disproportionatly benefical for the rich.
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    [QUOTE]
    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    Well that wasn't what you said, clearly the orginial comment was made in a negative way. And I simply pointed out, from my house where I can see to Saddleworth, it is very nice,
    Your just plain wrong. I said 'some dreary place in the north' i.e south shields. Both the north and the south have awful places. You seem to think the whole of the north is wonderful. I did not deny that the south had problems. In fact i have said many parts do. I wish you would read. I wasnt even talking about Saddleworth, in fact i haven't heard of it.


    That may be true,
    There's no 'may' about it. It is true.

    and I already knew that but it doesn't alter the perception, saying I'm from a council estate doesn't mean people won't percieve tax cuts, (and I know about trickle down, I'm not disputing the theory.) as disproportionatly benefical for the rich.
    Well they don't know anything about economics than.
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    Did I not say I was "not disputing the theory" its not the theory its the perception. Which has little I can see to do with the economics of it.
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    Did I not say I was "not disputing the theory" its not the theory its the perception. Which has little I can see to do with the economics of it.
    I think you should acually explain what you mean, are you referring to an economic theory?
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    You I assume believe that if you cut tax for the rich, this trickles down through society improving everybodys standard of living.

    That may or may not be true, but if you cut tax to the rich, whatever the justification, there will be a perception that you are a "rich mans" party.
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    You I assume believe that if you cut tax for the rich, this trickles down through society improving everybodys standard of living.

    That may or may not be true, but if you cut tax to the rich, whatever the justification, there will be a perception that you are a "rich mans" party.
    As i have said in a past post this perception is wrong and went onto explain why. Furthermore its not just the rich who benefit from tax cuts allo classes receive tax cuts. Thus to the rational person it is obvious that its not a question of rich or poor rather less tax.
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    (Original post by john williams)
    yeh good point, the Lib Dems are gaining ground and should snatch a few more seats off the Tories..we'd better watch out! :rolleyes:
    I take it then that the general election went right over your head. The Lib Dems got most of their gains from Labour seats. The Conservatives actually gained more seats from the Liberals than they lost. With Gordon Brown being predicted to raise taxes at the next budget due to his spending black hole and the slow down in the economy that is happening right now, as well as with the Labour Party moving to the left under Brown, there is no reason why the Conservatives cannot come to power providing that they send out the right message and the right messenger.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    I take it then that the general election went right over your head. The Lib Dems got most of their gains from Labour seats. The Conservatives actually gained more seats from the Liberals than they lost. With Gordon Brown being predicted to raise taxes at the next budget due to his spending black hole and the slow down in the economy that is happening right now, as well as with the Labour Party moving to the left under Brown, there is no reason why the Conservatives cannot come to power providing that they send out the right message and the right messenger.
    I accept your point about the lib dems. Indeed I was surprised by their lack of gains at the tories' expense before I thought about it and realised that the agenda they had been putting forward was essentially a left of centre one and one that did not find favour with many floating tories. The message point is interesting because to me at least the tories are distinctly lacking exactly that, a central message and have done for some time. This is partially to do with the political shifting of new Labour but still they often seem lacking on ideas and more importantly people. I don't think that there are that many tories with whom the public at large can identify with, apart from the core local party members. That's why I don't think the tories will make huge progress, their seeming inability to reach beyond their core vote. But then I suppose they said that about Labour in the 80s.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    I know Islington - near Upper Street many places are nice. The fact reamins Notting Hill is not a stereotypical tory area, whereas Islington is a stereotypical New Labour area.
    ...and I live there.
    Its more socialist than anything - Jeremy Corbyn and Chris Smith as MPs for over 20 years - hardly New Labour. Anyway, back to the topic...
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    ...and I live there.
    Its more socialist than anything - Jeremy Corbyn and Chris Smith as MPs for over 20 years - hardly New Labour. Anyway, back to the topic...
    Your just wrong about its perception. When people refer to Islington they tend to be talking about New Labour, its where 'the deal' was done and where the Blairs lived. That is its perception to argue otherwise is to deny reality.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Your just wrong about its perception. When people refer to Islington they tend to be talking about New Labour, its where 'the deal' was done and where the Blairs lived. That is its perception to argue otherwise is to deny reality.
    :adore:

    As you say....
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    :adore:

    As you say....
    Glad to see you have finally seen sense.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Glad to see you have finally seen sense.
    Sarcasm obviously not your forte.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Sarcasm obviously not your forte.
    Obviously its not yours
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    Does anyone know any "cool" members of Conservative Future? I would like to meet them for a coursework discussion essay I am writing at the moment for my media course titled "Where sterotypes hold true, a study of modern day life".
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    (Original post by material breach)
    Does anyone know any "cool" members of Conservative Future? I would like to meet them for a coursework discussion essay I am writing at the moment for my media course titled "Where sterotypes hold true, a study of modern day life".
    Meet them? Thats a bit much for an essay isn't it? The national chair likes football so perhaps that makes him 'cool'/ordinary.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Meet them? Thats a bit much for an essay isn't it? The national chair likes football so perhaps that makes him 'cool'/ordinary.
    The problem is, I have yet to find any. I was hoping on TSR with a larger group of people present there might be at least one...
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    (Original post by material breach)
    The problem is, I have yet to find any. I was hoping on TSR with a larger group of people present there might be at least one...
    What do you mean by cool?
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    What do you mean by cool?
    Aware of popular culture, a fan of it and intergrated with other members of society of a similar age, defining what cool is has been one of the major issue for me as its obviously constantly changing and a totally subjective term. Its like trying to define what British is without giving examples.
 
 
 
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