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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    What have you had 2 warnings for Howard?
    Nothing serious. Just a bored mod who I've never heard of flexing his muscles.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    What is the difference? A marriage is a civil union. It may be a religious union as well, of course, but unless it has been validated legally it isn't a marriage under civil law.
    Well, in the UK a marriage in church (CofE ONLY?) is civil and religious because the State and Church are fused. This isn't the case everywhere though.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    It means I'm not interested in discussing this further.
    Thus you accept your initial argument was wrong?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Do you know what a "sin" is?
    A sin is a transgression from God's will. I know it doesn't apply to people who disagree with homosexuals, as that is God's will. That is why I wrote as 'sinners'. Inverted commas - these mean that the word shouldn't really be applied, just so pedantic people can be satisfied.

    Obviously you are so pendantic even inverted commas can't satify you.

    EDIT: sorry , I just realised I left inverted commas out of the first sinner. That's why you must have been so confused.
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    (Original post by inequality)
    EDIT: sorry , I just realised I left inverted commas out of the first sinner. That's why you must have been so confused.
    Buffoon.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Thus you accept your initial argument was wrong?
    What was my initial argument exactly? What did I say that has caused you a little heart flutter?
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    This is a good move forward for Spain.

    Homophobic christians should stay out of this really, nobody is forcing them to get married to someone of the same sex...
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    This is a good move forward for Spain.

    Homophobic christians should stay out of this really, nobody is forcing them to get married to someone of the same sex...
    I agree. I have no problem with it. Civil marriages aren't the same as religious ones so why should I care?

    I would advise you though not to limit your displeasure solely towards "Homophobic Christians" though. I count amongst my friends many many more atheists than Christians (probably a 50:1 ratio) and they don't seem any keener on gay marriage than the Christians generally. Christians don't have a monopoly on homophobia.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I agree. I have no problem with it. Civil marriages aren't the same as religious ones so why should I care?
    Why should you care anyway? What has it got to do with you?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Why should you care anyway? What has it got to do with you?
    I just said I don't care didn't I? :confused:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I just said I don't care didn't I? :confused:
    You implied that if they were religious marriages then you would have a problem.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    This is very good. A marriage is a contract between individuals, the state shold not interfere.
    Seeing as the argument behind same sex marriage is almost entirely based on state recognition of marriage, that would be a task.

    Same sex marriage, and worse, same sex unions, could severly undermine the fundamental basis of society. Reducing marriage to a legal agreement speaks nothing of commitment, family and the stability a child needs.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    This is a good move forward for Spain.

    Homophobic christians should stay out of this really, nobody is forcing them to get married to someone of the same sex...
    There are considerable arguments against same sex unions that are neither homophobic or christian.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    What is the difference? A marriage is a civil union. It may be a religious union as well, of course, but unless it has been validated legally it isn't a marriage under civil law.
    If people cant draw a distinction between the institution of marriage and a civil union, it is already too late.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Seeing as the argument behind same sex marriage is almost entirely based on state recognition of marriage, that would be a task.

    Same sex marriage, and worse, same sex unions, could severly undermine the fundamental basis of society. Reducing marriage to a legal agreement speaks nothing of commitment, family and the stability a child needs.
    The doctrine of marriage is not being "reduced", it is being made more accessible and legitimate.

    Homosexuals may not be part of the "fundamental basis of society" in your opinion, but thats no excuse to discriminate. Less than 50 years ago it was "impossible to rape your wife" and women didn't have the right to vote. Sometimes changes are for the better, and this is a very positive and encouraging move.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    There are considerable arguments against same sex unions that are neither homophobic or christian.
    There is?

    Could you give me one or two legitimate ones please?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    You implied that if they were religious marriages then you would have a problem.
    Oh, in the Church? I'm not implying anything in that case. I'm stating a fact that I would have a problem with it. So would 99% of the Church. Unscriptural you see. Marriage in the Church is a Holy Sacrament, not an empty ceremony, and the "proper objects" for marriage in the Church is an unmarried women and an unmarried man.

    Actually, on second thoughts I may not have a problem with it since because we wouldn't be marrying the "proper objects" it would be a void ceremony so not a marriage anyway; just a farsical ceremony. You can't marry a dog to a man in Church and you can't marry two men either; you can go through the ceremony if you want but the marriage wouldn't be consecrated before God so would count for nothing. It wouldn't be recognized by God so why bother with the whole charade?

    Any homosexual who is a Christian knows this and probably wouldn't bother.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    The doctrine of marriage is not being "reduced", it is being made more accessible and legitimate.

    Homosexuals may not be part of the "fundamental basis of society" in your opinion, but thats no excuse to discriminate. Less than 50 years ago it was "impossible to rape your wife" and women didn't have the right to vote. Sometimes changes are for the better, and this is a very positive and encouraging move.
    The institution of marriage, distinct by its signficance as a moral commitment to starting a family, cannot be replicated between anyone but a man and woman. As you point out, the arguments for same sex marriage, and later, polygamous civil unions, civil unions between pets and pet owners, you name it. etc are based on legality and political discrimination. To redefine marriage as a political and legal arrangement undermines its importance and the stability on which society is founded.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    There is?

    Could you give me one or two legitimate ones please?
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/ac/?id=110004173
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Oh, in the Church? I'm not implying anything in that case. I'm stating a fact that I would have a problem with it. So would 99% of the Church. Unscriptural you see. Marriage in the Church is a Holy Sacrament, not an empty ceremony, and the "proper objects" for marriage in the Church is an unmarried women and an unmarried man.

    Actually, on second thoughts I may not have a problem with it since because we wouldn't be marrying the "proper objects" it would be a void ceremony so not a marriage anyway; just a farsical ceremony. You can't marry a dog to a man in Church and you can't marry two men either; you can go through the ceremony if you want but the marriage wouldn't be consecrated before God so would count for nothing. It wouldn't be recognized by God so why bother with the whole charade?

    Any homosexual who is a Christian knows this and probably wouldn't bother.
    I would be urged to agree if somebody was asking you to go and marry another man, but to be honest, it has nothing to do with you.

    If two men want to get married then let them, it is up to them how they view marriage and if they are happy getting married then good on them.I don't really think homosexuals care whether you consider their marriage "void" or not, it stands for committment and respect.

    This is yet another very positive move in Western Europe, with another country promoting personal choice and liberty over old, outdated and prejudice doctrines.

    Why should marriage be restricted to heterosexuals anyway? Where does it say this in the bible?
 
 
 
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