ASBOs Watch

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Rose64
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#61
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#61
(Original post by objectivism)
Excuses, excuses... People should just take responsibilty for their actions. They know whats right and whats wrong. We live in an excuse culture e.g 'its not my fault, i didn't have a father', 'i was poor', etc. Tell that to those who have made something of their lives, the millions of upwardly mobile peope.





Why don't you pay attention? REPEAT criminals
I do apologise, I doubt this would improve under your lock up REPEAT criminals for life scheme.
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Rose64
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#62
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#62
(Original post by objectivism)
Most murders are commited when drunk, on drugs, metally ill, etc. Thus in an irrational state. Muggings are not, most are conscious acts.

People commit crimes because they don't fear prison. It must be tougher.
It seems that the death penalty is about as tough as punishment can get, so how do you explain this not being a deterrent?

Actually, many murders are 'conscious acts'. Are you denying the existence of premeditated killings? Why would these take place if people feared life imprisonment?
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objectivism
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#63
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#63
[QUOTE]
(Original post by Blur303)
If being radical means having a society where it's everyman for himself, where capitalism reigns supreme and where people cannot benefit from taxation then I'm happy conforming. I'm not remotely bitter with any "hand I got dealth with" and consider myslef lucky to born in a country such as this. You're not informed, the poverty line is still an indicator of poverty. Just because you dismiss it does not diminish its worth, if there was no poverty there would be no need for any taxes to go to help those in need
.


Just because the gov says something does not make it true.

At the moment this is the case, this alone shows poverty still exists.
No it confirms Webers theory of the public sector.


Just because you have not had to experience it does not mean it does not occur. And if you honestly believe I advocate free curtain distrubution you must be more deluded than I thought. "You should think for once in your life"- if it means thinking in your blinkered view I'd rather pass.
Why did you not deny it than when i asked? In fact you implied the oppostie.


And when they don't agree claim they're stupid, ill informed or just plain wrong.
tu coque
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objectivism
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#64
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#64
[QUOTE=Rose64]It seems that the death penalty is about as tough as punishment can get, so how do you explain this not being a deterrent?


Becuase its used for murders and i;ve e xpalined most murders don;t occur when people are irrational.

Actually, many murders are 'conscious acts'. Are you denying the existence of premeditated killings? Why would these take place if people feared life imprisonment?
No im saying assasinations for example are in a minorty. Please read. They take please because some are risk takers and think they can get away with it.
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Rose64
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#65
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#65
(Original post by objectivism)
No im saying assasinations for example are in a minorty. Please read. They take please because some are risk takers and think they can get away with it.
Even if you're argument is taken seriously, then why would prison be a deterrent if it got tougher? If irrationality is indeed what causes most murders, why would this change under a more punitive scheme?
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Blur303
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Rose64)
Even if you're argument is taken seriously, then why would prison be a deterrent if it got tougher? If irrationality is indeed what causes most murders, why would this change under a more punitive scheme?
Precisely, people who commit crime aren't generally thinking when they do it. Those that do are generally the more intelligent criminals who commit crime like fraud. They think they're above the law anyway. Prison acts as no deterrent.
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objectivism
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Blur303)
Precisely, people who commit crime aren't generally thinking when they do it. Those that do are generally the more intelligent criminals who commit crime like fraud. They think they're above the law anyway. Prison acts as no deterrent.

Tell that to burglars, muggers, shoplifiters etc
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objectivism
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Rose64)
Even if you're argument is taken seriously, then why would prison be a deterrent if it got tougher? If irrationality is indeed what causes most murders, why would this change under a more punitive scheme?

Im talking about the 100,000 repeat offenders as i have made clear again and again, my emphasis is therefore not on murderers. People who burgle, mug etc ARE aware of what they are doing therefore it WILL be a deterrent to the vast majority of those 100,000 repeat offenders.


How many more times must i explain this to you?
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Rose64
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#69
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#69
(Original post by objectivism)
Im talking about the 100,000 repeat offenders as i have made clear again and again, my emphasis is therefore not on murderers. People who burgle, mug etc ARE aware of what they are doing therefore it WILL be a deterrent to the vast majority of those 100,000 repeat offenders.


How many more times must i explain this to you?
Why would it be a deterrent? Most murderers ARE aware of what they're doing.
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objectivism
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Rose64)
Why would it be a deterrent? Most murderers ARE aware of what they're doing.

No they are not, we seem to be going around in cricles. I made the point that they are not aware and now your being up opposition to this? You seem to just be making up things as you go along. Provide evidence for your above assertion. Most are either insane, on drugs, drunk etc.
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#71
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#71
You really are quite a class warrior, how about you give us some stats?
I'll bet there are no stats. But do you think anti social behaviour and other small/medium scale crime is worse among working class or middle class? Answer honestly if you can.

Rather it depends on the individual - how they react in the circumstances
10 year old kids are lazy? Is it lazy to mug an old lady? Or is it that they haven't been brought up in a nice environment? It's the same with food. Can working class mothers not be bothered to buy proper food and cook proper food or is it that they can't afford to? Is it that they are generally a lazy person or is it because they've been surrounded by bad influences from birth?
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Rose64
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#72
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#72
(Original post by objectivism)
No they are not, we seem to be going around in cricles. I made the point that they are not aware and now your being up opposition to this? You seem to just be making up things as you go along. Provide evidence for your above assertion. Most are either insane, on drugs, drunk etc.
I've seen no evidence for your claims? Anyway, murder is defined as a premeditated killing, one where someone had the intention of ending another person's life. So, life imprisonment is obviously not a deterrent. Yes, we are going round in circles, and I really don't know why I'm continuing to argue with someone who resorts to childish insults and analogies about jumpers. Lol, that was funny though.
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TheVlad
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Rose64)
I've seen no evidence for your claims? Anyway, murder is defined as a premeditated killing, one where someone had the intention of ending another person's life. So, life imprisonment is obviously not a deterrent.
It may not be a deterrent for all but it is a deterrent for the overwhelming majority.
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TheVlad
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Northumbrian)
I'll bet there are no stats. But do you think anti social behaviour and other small/medium scale crime is worse among working class or middle class? Answer honestly if you can.

10 year old kids are lazy? Is it lazy to mug an old lady? Or is it that they haven't been brought up in a nice environment? It's the same with food. Can working class mothers not be bothered to buy proper food and cook proper food or is it that they can't afford to? Is it that they are generally a lazy person or is it because they've been surrounded by bad influences from birth?
It is easier to mug an old lady when you know you will get away with it than to work for a living. So yes, it is lazyness.
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objectivism
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#75
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#75
I've seen no evidence for your claims?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/executb.htm
For example: One pilot study of over 2 dozen convicted criminals on death row found that all had been so seriously abused during childhood that they probably all suffered from brain damage.

Also, once again i ask for you to give me evidence for your claims.

Anyway, murder is defined as a premeditated killing, one where someone had the intention of ending another person's life.
Someone who is on drugs, alcohol etc still has the intention.

So, life imprisonment is obviously not a deterrent.
My case has alwasy been that capital punishment is wrong because it does not deter because many murders are caused when intoxicated for example.
Stop trying to move the goal posts.

Yes, we are going round in circles, and I really don't know why I'm continuing to argue with someone who resorts to childish insults and analogies about jumpers. Lol, that was funny though.
Its not my fault you can't understand it.
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objectivism
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#76
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#76
10 year old kids are lazy?
Yes, some are.

Is it lazy to mug an old lady?
Yes

Or is it that they haven't been brought up in a nice environment?
Just because they never had a merc does not mean they don't know what is right and what is wrong. Your quite the snob.
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Rose64
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#77
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#77
(Original post by objectivism)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/executb.htm
For example: One pilot study of over 2 dozen convicted criminals on death row found that all had been so seriously abused during childhood that they probably all suffered from brain damage.

Also, once again i ask for you to give me evidence for your claims.



Someone who is on drugs, alcohol etc still has the intention.



My case has alwasy been that capital punishment is wrong because it does not deter because many murders are caused when intoxicated for example.
Stop trying to move the goal posts.



Its not my fault you can't understand it.
I understand it prefectly thanks, that doesn't make it any less irrelevant. Anyway, thanks for this enthralling debate. It's always fun to come across another TSR Tory. You know, there being so few of you.
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#78
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#78
It is easier to mug an old lady when you know you will get away with it than to work for a living. So yes, it is lazyness.
Who said they will know they will get away with it?

Just because they never had a merc does not mean they don't know what is right and what is wrong. Your quite the snob.
How am I a snob? And I wasn't thinking as superficially as yourself. There used to be pride in the working class community. This is ebbing away because their proud industries are gone, their community spirit is gone.
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djchak
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#79
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#79
OK, what do you think of this:

The people who currently get ASBOs would be sent to something resembling Channel 4's Brat Camp, only we would taylor it to the degree of thier condition. For the hardcore ones, we could do a military school type thing.

In the end they would learn discipline and be fine. No death penalty for the lazy/crazy.
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objectivism
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Rose64)
I understand it prefectly thanks, that doesn't make it any less irrelevant. Anyway, thanks for this enthralling debate. It's always fun to come across another TSR Tory. You know, there being so few of you.

You criticise me for ad hominem arguments, yet you do the same. Not only do you resort to personal attacks but you are a hypocrite. You have not addressed my points.
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