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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Well, we have to keep in mind that your friends are the sort of people who would hang out with you...so...they're clearly an exception to the norm. I've yet to encounter a non-US-American who would claim to be "American," rather than "North/South/Central/Latin American."

    I haven't seen Canuck around lately... he may have collapsed from hockey withdrawal.
    Satori, have you ever left the US?? I didnt think so. Ive been to central and south America on more than one occasion. Many people take offense to the US's idea that only they are American.

    A typical overseas conversation with a Canadian (for example) might go like this:

    Kondar: "Hey, where are you from?"
    Canadian: "Canada. Let me guess, your from... America? (said sarcastically)

    When westerners ask me where Im from, I say the states, when the chinese ask, I say America.
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    (Original post by Douglas)
    F-9/11 implied that Kathrine Harris (a republican) was in charge of the vote count, where in fact, she had NOTHING to do with the vote count
    She certified it, and you're saying "she had nothing to do with" it?

    She was the one who set the absolute deadline for the recount, ending the hand recount that was revealing a net gain for Gore in Palm Beach County. And according to Salon.com, "she effectively told {Palm Beach County officials] to remove all thoughts of a countywide hand recount from their minds." My conclusion is that she did, in fact, have something to do with the recount.

    Of course you know that's not true, every legitimate news organization in the country has acknowledged Bush's victory
    I take it your "legitimate news organizations" are confined to the American Spectator, National Review, Wall Street Journal, FoxNews, Front Page Mag, Weekly Standard, and TownHall.com.

    Moore certainly did not misrepresent Toobin's point of view on CNN, which was that Gore deserved to win. And showing the clip of Toobin was not misleading, since the entire country knew that it represented a widely shared viewpoint (shared by Moore himself, of course). This is what you mean by Moore's monstrous deception?
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    She certified it, and you're saying "she had nothing to do with" it?
    Counting is not the same as certifying the count. It's the difference between low-level employees and management.

    She was the one who set the absolute deadline for the recount, ending the hand recount that was revealing a net gain for Gore in Palm Beach County. And according to Salon.com, "she effectively told {Palm Beach County officials] to remove all thoughts of a countywide hand recount from their minds." My conclusion is that she did, in fact, have something to do with the recount.
    Actually, the Florida State Constitution is the one that set a deadline, and she just enforced it.
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    i hate americans...well 95% of them...the scientists and intellects i have problems with...its those dumb ass politicians and the dumb american public i despise,

    phil

    To the scientists in the US - there is nothing for you there than money...migrate to the UK to where you'll all feel at home:cool: - money is not everything anyway
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Satori, have you ever left the US?? I didnt think so.
    I love the assumptions that people on here make about others without cause... :rolleyes: I figured you to be a more intelligent and rational being than you now seem to be. What a pity.

    Ive been to central and south America on more than one occasion. Many people take offense to the US's idea that only they are American.

    A typical overseas conversation with a Canadian (for example) might go like this:

    Kondar: "Hey, where are you from?"
    Canadian: "Canada. Let me guess, your from... America? (said sarcastically)

    When westerners ask me where Im from, I say the states, when the chinese ask, I say America.
    Canadians are snarky, what else is new? Anyway, I'm done with you for a while, Kondar. What a disappointment you are.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I love the assumptions that people on here make about others without cause... :rolleyes: I figured you to be a more intelligent and rational being than you now seem to be. What a pity.
    I know you have never left the states (youve told me before) How can you possibly make an educated comment on this?
    Canadians are snarky, what else is new? Anyway, I'm done with you for a while, Kondar. What a disappointment you are.
    yeah yeah yeah.....
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    (Original post by Phil23)
    To the scientists in the US - there is nothing for you there than money...migrate to the UK to where you'll all feel at home:cool: - money is not everything anyway
    That made no sense.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    I know you have never left the states (youve told me before) How can you possibly make an educated comment on this? yeah yeah yeah.....
    Clearly, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Not desiring to travel abroad NOW does not mean one has not been abroad in the PAST. I would also remind you that I competed on an INTERNATIONAL level in martial arts, which would also STRONGLY suggest something contrary to your belief.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Clearly, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Not desiring to travel abroad NOW does not mean one has not been abroad in the PAST. I would also remind you that I competed on an INTERNATIONAL level in martial arts, which would also STRONGLY suggest something contrary to your belief.
    I can feel the anger....

    whats up with you?
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    (Original post by Phil23)
    i hate americans...well 95% of them...the scientists and intellects i have problems with...its those dumb ass politicians and the dumb american public i despise,

    phil

    To the scientists in the US - there is nothing for you there than money...migrate to the UK to where you'll all feel at home:cool: - money is not everything anyway
    That's pretty funny considering the large amount of European (and Canadian) scientists who defect to the US because of the higher salaries.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    I can feel the anger....

    whats up with you?
    Your tone bothered me. I believe my irritation to be justified, particularly since you were incorrect.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Counting is not the same as certifying the count. It's the difference between low-level employees and management.
    I see, so Moore was being deceptive by suggesting that Harris was a low-level employee?


    Actually, the Florida State Constitution is the one that set a deadline, and she just enforced it.
    Are you saying Florida's state constitution has built-in recount deadlines? Source, please.

    My recollection---and it's backed up by news sources---is that Harris played an active role. From USA Today:

    "November 13, 2000
    Palm Beach and Volusia County Canvassing Boards sue Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris to halt her just-announced 5:00 p.m. vote certification and recount deadline. They want to gain time so they can continue their recounts of presidential ballots and include the hand counted votes that Harris seeks to prohibit.
    U.S. District Court Judge Middlebrook, holding that Florida's vote-counting process appeared to be neutral without any necessity for federal intervention, denies the Bush campaign's request for injunctive relief to halt a manual recount of Florida voters' ballots. Middlebrook concludes, 'The body of law is pretty pervasive that the federal courts ought to stay out of state elections.'


    November 14, 2000
    The Palm Beach County Canvassing Board decides to continue manual recounts of presidential votes, even though a state court judge in Tallahassee upholds Harris' previously announced 5:00 p.m. deadline for counties to report ballot counts to the state. Leon County Judge Terry Lewis upholds Harris' 5:00 p.m. deadline, but cautions that he will allow supplemental or corrected presidential vote totals after the deadline and that Harris may use them if she uses a 'proper exercise of discretion.'
    High-profile litigator David Boies joins the Gore campaign's legal team.


    November 15, 2000
    Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris sues in an effort to stop manual recounts."
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    Must say, the thread name soundsm utterly ridicullous. Is TSR harouring any Islamic Fundamentalists?
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    I see, so Moore was being deceptive by suggesting that Harris was a low-level employee?
    By suggesting that she had the ability to "fix" the counting.


    Are you saying Florida's state constitution has built-in recount deadlines? Source, please.
    Florida legislation sets a ballot-certification deadline.

    (Original post by Source)
    The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday set aside a ruling by Florida's highest court that allowed manual vote recounts to proceed after a November 14 ballot-certification deadline set by that state's legislature
    My recollection---and it's backed up by news sources---is that Harris played an active role. From USA Today:

    "November 13, 2000
    Palm Beach and Volusia County Canvassing Boards sue Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris to halt her just-announced 5:00 p.m. vote certification and recount deadline. They want to gain time so they can continue their recounts of presidential ballots and include the hand counted votes that Harris seeks to prohibit.
    U.S. District Court Judge Middlebrook, holding that Florida's vote-counting process appeared to be neutral without any necessity for federal intervention, denies the Bush campaign's request for injunctive relief to halt a manual recount of Florida voters' ballots. Middlebrook concludes, 'The body of law is pretty pervasive that the federal courts ought to stay out of state elections.'


    November 14, 2000
    The Palm Beach County Canvassing Board decides to continue manual recounts of presidential votes, even though a state court judge in Tallahassee upholds Harris' previously announced 5:00 p.m. deadline for counties to report ballot counts to the state. Leon County Judge Terry Lewis upholds Harris' 5:00 p.m. deadline, but cautions that he will allow supplemental or corrected presidential vote totals after the deadline and that Harris may use them if she uses a 'proper exercise of discretion.'
    High-profile litigator David Boies joins the Gore campaign's legal team.


    November 15, 2000
    Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris sues in an effort to stop manual recounts."
    Well, considering that manual recounting that went past the deadline was interfering with her abilities certify the ballots when law required, I can't really blame her for playing an active role to fulfill her civic duties.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    By suggesting that she had the ability to "fix" the counting.

    Well, considering that manual recounting that went past the deadline was interfering with her abilities certify the ballots when law required, I can't really blame her for playing an active role to fulfill her civic duties.
    She was the one who set the deadline!

    That was how she "fixed" it!
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    She was the one who set the deadline!

    That was how she "fixed" it!
    She set the deadline because the law dictated the deadline. If you have a problem with the deadline, you can take it up with the democratically elected Florida state legislature. No need to attack the person who is only upholding the law.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    She set the deadline because the law dictated the deadline. If you have a problem with the deadline, you can take it up with the democratically elected Florida state legislature. No need to attack the person who is only upholding the law.
    Oh, that's ridiculous. This was a totally unprecedented situation, & she went so far as to sue "in an effort to stop manual recounts." She was in charge of the recount, & she used her position to help Bush's cause. Period.
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Oh, that's ridiculous. This was a totally unprecedented situation, & she went so far as to sue "in an effort to stop manual recounts." She was in charge of the recount, & she used her position to help Bush's cause. Period.
    The worst you can accuse her of is orthodoxy. She was just following the letter of the law. Had she made an exception, her reputation and credibility would have been in the gutter and she surely would have lost her job, which did not include the duty to create new laws to fit unique situations. The bitterness over this person doing what Florida law dictated that she do is just pathetic.
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Moore certainly did not misrepresent Toobin's point of view on CNN, which was that Gore deserved to win. And showing the clip of Toobin was not misleading, since the entire country knew that it represented a widely shared viewpoint (shared by Moore himself, of course). This is what you mean by Moore's monstrous deception?
    Remember, we're talking about Florida. Toobin said in F-9/11, that under every scenario, Gore had won. This was taken out of context, Toobin also said that Gore would have had to pick up all (or a bunch) of Buchanan's votes, which Gore had claimed that people who voted for Buchanan actually meant to vote for him (Gore)......
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Oh, that's ridiculous. This was a totally unprecedented situation, & she went so far as to sue "in an effort to stop manual recounts." She was in charge of the recount, & she used her position to help Bush's cause. Period.
    All of the vote counters in Broward county and other democratically controlled AND contested counties were DEMOCRATS. In the hand recount, if there was a small dimple in a Gore chad, the vote went to Gore.

    Now, everyone knows that a machine count is much more accurate than a manual count. Bush won 2 or 3 machine counts prior to the mandated hand count..........where he still won, but not as wide a margin.

    Lets not forget that the democrats wanted all the late military absentee ballots thrown out.....great guys huh? Of course they didn't mind the polls being open late in democratically controlled precincts.

    BTW, did you happen to notice the Washington state goveners race? The republican won two machine counts, but lost the manual count.
 
 
 
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