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Liver failure any hope? watch

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    I won't go into details but a close relative has had an operation to remove most of his liver as was infected with cancer, the problem is they removed more then they were supposed to and his liver is now failing.

    The doctors have not been at all honest about what has been happening so I don't beleive a word of any of them say. The liver is failing to grow back does this mean its fatal or is there stuff they can do try and help it grow back?

    Please try and stay on topic with this thread, also please only reply to this if you know somebody in who was in a similier situtation or you are qualified to say.
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    is there the possibility of a liver transplant?
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    Nope he is 79 , just got some more news that his kidneys are starting to fail. From what the doctors were saying he its just a matter of days now
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    My heartfelt commiserations. Very brave of you to post this. Do you know whether the cancer is primary or secondary? i.e primary=originating in the liver, secondary=spread to the liver from somewhere else?
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    Its secondary its spread from his bowels which have been removed. This morning the doctors were saying they could try other stuff hence the point of this thread but now they are saying in its in the hands of god.
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    Taking all factors into account - the only viable treatment would be chemo - you have to understand that secondary cancer retains the characteristics of it's origin i.e. liver cancer originating in the bowel i.e. bowel cancer will still be BOWEL cancer even though it's spread to to liver, and so the treatment regime wouldn't be so straightforward as with a primary cancer. Transplantation would not be an option, as the drugs used to supress the immune system also stimulate cancer growth - that's why cancer patients aren't considered for transplant.
    I really do hate to say this to you, as you obviously care, but I think the doctors in this case are right - it's in the hands of god or whoever.
    It's moments like this that make me realise how bloody INADEQUATE we really are.
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    Tell me about it, we all thought he had bowel cancer years ago but the GP knew best and kept subsribing him parcemetal which has possibly caused more damage to the liver.

    I dont' trust anything the doctors say anymore. I think we have all apcepted now that there is a very big chance of him not getting better.
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    (Original post by AT82)
    Tell me about it, we all thought he had bowel cancer years ago but the GP knew best and kept subsribing him parcemetal which has possibly caused more damage to the liver
    What in god's name was that GP THINKING of?? That's sheer bloody NEGLIGENCE!!
    I know it's fine to say this in retrospect - but why don't more people INSIST on a second opinion if in doubt? Doctors etc. ARE fallible - but there's no excuse for the above. Unfortunately in the majority of cases - bowel cancer cannot be diagnosed until it has spread through the bowel wall - so if there is even the slightest HINT of this disease - it should have been investigated thoroughly asap. What diagnosis did that gp offer at the time?
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    She said it was just an over active thyroid or somthing even though he had all the classic symptons of bowel cancer. The problem is people don't like to kick up a fuss and they just find it easier to believe what the doctors say. Its one of those things which is probably easier said that done.
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    Symptoms of over-active thyroid

    Constant body movement, as of severe anxiety
    A fast and sometimes irregular pulse
    Irritability
    Warm, clammy hands
    Sweating
    Shakiness
    Muscle weakness
    Tremor
    Vomiting and diarrhoea
    Scanty or absent periods
    Loss of weight in spite of good appetite and large intake
    Palpitations
    Great dislike of hot weather



    Symptoms of bowel cancer

    blood (bright red or black flecks) or mucus in the stool (faeces)
    changes in bowel habits: diarrhoea, constipation or both, anything that is abnormal, or which lasts more than two weeks
    the feeling of still having to go to the toilet even after having emptied the bowels
    pain or discomfort in the stomach area (colicky pain, cramps, or tenderness)
    unexplained weight loss
    extreme tiredness (this may be due to bleeding)
    a lump in the abdomen.


    Yeah - it's easy to see how she mixed the two up. :rolleyes:



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    It looks like a really nasty series of unfortunate events AT, and it IS very bad of the GP not to have investigated further if you were all thinking he was showing symptoms of the cancer. However, that's in the past now. From where I'm sitting, and I must emphasise I have NO knowledge of your grandpa's current clinical presentation, and only what you have told us of his history, it looks kinda bleak. It's horrible to lose someone you're close to like this, especially when they've been ill for so long, and by all accounts, fighting so well.

    Don't lose hope that it's all over yet though - like I say, I don't know everything and he might pull through it. If the worst does happen though, make sure he has as enjoyable last few days as he can, bring in photos, lots of visits etc. And hopefully your family will be able to support each other.

    All the best, hun
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    He did have an over active thyroid at the same time, that was treated but the original cancer symptons were just ignored, but like Helenia said that is the past. He nearly died after his last operation but he pulled through, he had no organ failure last time though.

    I've also read on article written by the surgeon who carried out the operation that it only has a 40% sucess rate The main thing at the moment is he is comfortable and has had a near to normal life the last few months.
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    You would get the most accurate information if you speak to the doctor treating your relative, even though their advice hasn't been too useful so far, becuase the treatment of liver failure depends on the cause. The information will also be much more relavant as the doctor will know in detail about the past and current health history. It is likely that he will be put on a protein controlled diet so they liver doesn't have too much work breaking down excess amino acids. All the best and stay strong for your relative.
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    (Original post by bodhisattva)
    What in god's name was that GP THINKING of?? That's sheer bloody NEGLIGENCE!!
    I know it's fine to say this in retrospect - but why don't more people INSIST on a second opinion if in doubt? Doctors etc. ARE fallible - but there's no excuse for the above. Unfortunately in the majority of cases - bowel cancer cannot be diagnosed until it has spread through the bowel wall - so if there is even the slightest HINT of this disease - it should have been investigated thoroughly asap. What diagnosis did that gp offer at the time?
    can i just ask, how is 'parcemetal' (or was it meant to be paracetomol) dangerous to the liver?
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    (Original post by ramroff)
    can i just ask, how is 'parcemetal' (or was it meant to be paracetomol) dangerous to the liver?
    Probably the same way that alchohol is Must drugs are supposed affect the liver aren't they?
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    (Original post by ramroff)
    can i just ask, how is 'parcemetal' (or was it meant to be paracetomol) dangerous to the liver?
    Paracetamol, when broken down in the liver, converts to around 90% inactive and harmless metabolites. The other (roughly) 10% converts to a highly reactive metabolite called N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine, (NAPQI), which in standard pharmacalogical doses is relatively safe, although there ARE contra-indications. When taken as an overdose, NAPQI attacks liver function and cells - you'd have to ask a cytologist precisely how that mechanism works. I can tell you - trying to take yourself "out" on paracetamol is NOT pleasant - ask any doctor or nurse who's had to deal with it.
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    yeah, the problem with paracetamol is that if you od, it damages your liver, but you don't die instantly, you'll go relatively slowly through liver failure instead, and there's nothing the doctors can then do about it. It's also worth noting, that you don't have to go much over the recommended amount to cause liver damage, indeed, if you're particularly sensitive to it even just the recommended dose can potentially cause problems. so... um, yeah, too much paracetamol=bad idea.

    and, to AT82: that's a really tough time you're going through, and perhaps the doctors weren't as helpful as they should have been etc, but it's always good to remember that 79 is a good age, and i'm sure there's alot they can look back on and be proud of - remember the good things aswell
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    (Original post by AT82)
    I won't go into details but a close relative has had an operation to remove most of his liver as was infected with cancer, the problem is they removed more then they were supposed to and his liver is now failing.

    The doctors have not been at all honest about what has been happening so I don't beleive a word of any of them say. The liver is failing to grow back does this mean its fatal or is there stuff they can do try and help it grow back?

    Please try and stay on topic with this thread, also please only reply to this if you know somebody in who was in a similier situtation or you are qualified to say.
    fraid he will die rather soon.
    but if you have anything you wanna telll him do it now, because hes going to become encepalopathic - become confused, then lose consciousness before dying. (basically due to mateolites and **** in the blood plus lack of blood proteins).
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    I'm sorry I'm not sure. All I can suggest is that you do a bit of research on the net; it should help you out because the internet knows all. Google some key words. Good Luck, and I all goes well.
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    There is no point now, my grandad passed away at 5:00am this morning. They had to remove 75% of his liver and the remaining 25% was damaged. What I don't understand is why did the scans just show a tiny mark?

    He was really quite active and well before he had the operation, yes he was in a bit of pain but he was enjoying life.

    PS Jamie that is exactly how my grandad was yesterday, he was very confused and he was always a very bright man always with it. My grandad probably knew on Friday he was dying when he said he has a feeling he's going down.
 
 
 
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