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are you ever ashamed to be European or of European descent? watch

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    alot of times i feel the guilt of my ancestors for what we've done in the 3rd world ( particularly africa) I tell myself that it was inevitable that a group would rise and exploit for their own interests ...after all it is human nature..no? anyway...wt do you think?
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    I'm not ashamed of who I am. We have a blemished ancestry but most people do. At some stage you do have to stop punishing yourselves for what previous people did hundreds of years ago.
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    Your ancestors specifically, or dead Whites generally?
    Do you feel guilty about the actions of dead people who share some other genetic quality with you - eye colour say?
    Do you take pride in dead White people's achievements, believe that they also reflect on you?

    Grow up.

    And stop being racist.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Your ancestors specifically, or dead Whites generally?
    Do you feel guilty about the actions of dead people who share some other genetic quality with you - eye colour say?
    Do you take pride in dead White people's achievements, believe that they also reflect on you?

    Grow up.

    And stop being racist.
    well not rlly guilty, or ashamed, but more...i dunno...embarassed i guess? i duont know...hard to desscribe. im not racist, im just saying that our imperial expansion has caused alot of the problems and the genocides currently happening, of which many of our nations try to ignore.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Your ancestors specifically, or dead Whites generally?
    Do you feel guilty about the actions of dead people who share some other genetic quality with you - eye colour say?
    Dead whites, and im not talking genetically u idiot. im clearly referring to those nations who did alot of colonization.
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    I didn't do it, nor was I around at the time to possibly prevent it being done, so why I should feel any form of guilt for it?
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    You don't think we're doing engaged in imperialism now?

    If we are you're more responsible for that surely.
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    (Original post by Ferret_messiah)
    I didn't do it, nor was I around at the time to possibly prevent it being done, so why I should feel any form of guilt for it?
    yea, thats true. we we're discussing this in geography...and someone went all out , stating how european colonization is the root of much of the problems in africa...and it is true to an extent.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    You don't think we're doing engaged in imperialism now?

    If we are you're more responsible for that surely.
    as an american....im not responsible i guess, as i do not support most of my countries foreign policy initiatives.
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    (Original post by Gwenyth!)
    No. And Europeans aren't the only ones with a 'blemished' past as you put it. North America can be blamed for slavery,etc. On that note, there's a lot to be proud of too - look at the great litterature, the scientific leaps and so on.

    very true, there is alot to be proud of. but just a note..slavery in north america was done by people pf european descent :p:
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    (Original post by lovemachine)
    as an american....im not responsible i guess, as i do not support most of my countries foreign policy initiatives.
    If you're not responsible for your own governments policies and actions, I think you can let yourself off the hook for the actions of your ancestors' nations.

    Anybody who feels the pain of long dead slaves might stop indulging themselves and do something for todays living slaves, many of them children.
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    (Original post by lovemachine)
    but just a note..slavery in north america was done by people pf european descent :p:
    Ethnic groups the world over have had slavery as an integral part of their societies - Europeans have by no means ever been the only people responsible! Can't think of any group off the top of my head, but I know it's true.
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    (Original post by kew96158)
    Ethnic groups the world over have had slavery as an integral part of their societies - Europeans have by no means ever been the only people responsible! Can't think of any group off the top of my head, but I know it's true.
    thats tru, but slavery under the europeans was alot more harsh. in many other cultures , such as the arabs...they treated their slaves as a member of the family, their children slept in the same bed, and in alot of cases, masters married their slaves. slavery in the united states and brazil was brutal, there was clear seperation between master slave,.
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    Of course I do not feel guilty about things my ancestors did. That is ridiculous and is exactly the collective "racial thinking" that ArthurOliver and his neo-Nazi friends believe in. How on earth can you reflect any achievement or evil deed your ancestors have committed, onto yourself? It is unreasonable and silly.
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    I've never regarded myself as European, nor really want to. I think of myself as British. But I appreciate that isn't the point. I am proud to be British, and proud of what our country has achieved in the world. True, the Empire brought a lot of evil to the world, but much of that evil was just waiting to boil over. The British Empire brought a lot of good to the world, including:

    The abolition of slavery (the reasons for doing so are irrelevant)
    The Anglicization of North America and Australasia
    The triumph of capitalism as the optimum economic system around the world
    The spreading of the English language
    The spreading of Christainity and especially the Protestant version
    Democracy, which far worse empires were posed to extinguish in 1940
    The limited or night-watchman state
    The idea of liberty
    English and Scottish forms of land tenure
    Scottish and English banking
    The Common Law
    Team sports - cricket, rugby, football
    The building of infrastrusture in many of its colonies and protectorates
    And finally, linked to democracy, representative assemblies.

    These are some of the achievements of Imperialism. While evil did result from the creation of Empires, in a discussion of imperialism you have to remember the good that came of it.
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    (Original post by Chiron)
    Of course I do not feel guilty about things my ancestors did. That is ridiculous and is exactly the collective "racial thinking" that ArthurOliver and his neo-Nazi friends believe in. How on earth can you reflect any achievement or evil deed your ancestors have committed, onto yourself? It is unreasonable and silly.
    Chiron, I've said the exact opposite in this thread, and have pointed out previously that you keep on misrepresenting my views. Stop it please.
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    We had nothing to do with what happened in the past and therefore any feelings of emotion or responsibility for our ancestors' actions are rather pointless.
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    It's difficult not to occasionally feel ashamed of things that your ancestors did. I know it's irrational, but the shame/guilt is somewhat unavoidable, surely? Obviously we personally had nothing to do with it, but part of learning from history and not repeating it is because we do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past?
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    I don't consider myself European because it's too general as within Europe there are many diffent creeds and cultures. Additionally, some European nations have much more blood on their hands than others. Some European countries are also very poor, like Moldova for example, which is "A European country with African levels of poverty". European countries have attacked each other too.

    I just think that you can't tar an entire continent by the actions of a few countries.
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    (Original post by oilcan)
    I don't consider myself European because it's too general as within Europe there are many diffent creeds and cultures. Additionally, some European nations have much more blood on their hands than others. Some European countries are also very poor, like Moldova for example, which is "A European country with African levels of poverty". European countries have attacked each other too. I just think that you can't tar an entire continent by the actions of a few countries.
    That's so true, and is a point I have been trying to make around these parts in the last few days. It is hard to make generalisations about sets whos members display exceptions to a given rule. The other thing I find a little strange is the substitution of "Third World" for "Africa". Some people make it seem as though Africa is a synonym for the third world.
 
 
 
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