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Live 8: benefitting Africa or benefitting us? watch

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    Live 8 will do absoloutely nothing.

    The poverty problem in Afrika cant be solved.

    I hate hte messages that people like Geldof are sending to the rest of the world, like British teens for example, they are getting the message that solving the problem is easy is the governments just listen. This is not so.

    Many of these people Geldof are talking to havent even been to Afrika to suss out what going on for themselves, they are quite happy to sit and take a one sided view of things.

    Its good that they want to help, but sadly, I dont think it can be helped.
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    If Live 8 saves even just one life - in my eyes, it's worth it.
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    For me, Live 8 is just another band wagon that has attracted the media's attention for a short period, and a shameful attempt by Bob Geldof to remind everybody how good he is at helping people. The problem with events like Live 8 is that the response by the public and by its organisers is far too impulsive and hypocritical to bring about any real pressure on the G8 leaders.

    This is a perfect example, from earlier in the thread:
    Bob geldof then reveals that she was helped through money raised in the last appeal and has just passed her agriculture exams. they then bring on this pretty 20ish year old girl onto stage and the crowd goes nuts, people were sobbing. it was so poweful.
    I saw that moment, and thought that it was a perfect example of Geldof exploiting immediate impulses and passions in his audience, rather than acheiving the so-called intention of "raising awareness".

    Everybody knows that Africa is deep in debt, and that every day, thousands of innocent people are dying. But holding a free rock concert won't help. Sticking Peter Kay on the stage and watching him bellow out a song doesn't help Africa. Getting a collaboration of millionaires to stand on a stage to be watching by billions worldwide, undoubtedly increasing their sales at least twofold, doesn't help Africa.

    It disgusts me that Bill Gates can walk out onto a free worldwide advertising stage and proclaim his support for "trade justice". Gates has, it is estimated, around US$40 billion last time I checked. That isn't helping Africa.

    Live 8 will fail Africa - there is no doubt there, whatsoever. But the G8 can make a difference, providing that irresponsible calls to "abolish debt" by impulsive demagogues are ignored. Africa has been given an oppurtunity, and it has failed. Until a genuine change is seen in the political climate of Africa, whereby democratic governments can be trusted to use aid properly, it is futile to plunge aid unthinkingly into Africa to fund another fleet of luxury cars and palaces for corrupt dictators, or another wave of deadly militia groups acting on their command.

    Africa must change itself first, before there can be any genuine attempts to make poverty history.
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    (Original post by Everdawn)
    Live 8 will do absoloutely nothing.

    The poverty problem in Afrika cant be solved.

    I hate hte messages that people like Geldof are sending to the rest of the world, like British teens for example, they are getting the message that solving the problem is easy is the governments just listen. This is not so.

    Many of these people Geldof are talking to havent even been to Afrika to suss out what going on for themselves, they are quite happy to sit and take a one sided view of things.

    Its good that they want to help, but sadly, I dont think it can be helped.
    actually a great deal of the artists HAVE been to africa and have been to hard hit areas - something i would imagine few here have done. The charities take out celebs to africa to show them and make sure they DO know what they are talking about.

    No one is claiming its just about wiping the slate clean, no one thinks that africa is being held back just by debts. as much is actually due to corruption - more money is stolen through corruption than spent on health and education in many countries.

    But the message to the G8 is clear - we - the people you represent DO care about this issue, and do think we need to start taking much more serious long term steps than empty promises and token amount of aid.

    Jesus died on the cross to give us a clean slate. He didn't just get a slapped bum or a papercut.
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    It disgusts me that Bill Gates can walk out onto a free worldwide advertising stage and proclaim his support for "trade justice". Gates has, it is estimated, around US$40 billion last time I checked. That isn't helping Africa.
    How much money gates has doesnt affect Africa. But he has donated more to africa than most countries do. He has donated literally billions of dollars, been there many times, and is an avid supporter of vaccination programs, help with drug costs etc.

    How much have you donated?
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    Live 8 will fail Africa
    Live 8 will fail africa, or fail to help africa suficiently.

    God some of you guys disgust me. You would poo poo the efforts of a first aider in trying to stem an injured mans bleeding for not being able to heal him there and then.
    :mad:
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    Live 8 will fail africa, or fail to help africa suficiently.

    God some of you guys disgust me. You would poo poo the efforts of a first aider in trying to stem an injured mans bleeding for not being able to heal him there and then.
    :mad:
    To continue that analogy, I feel that Live 8 is more like a first-aider who thinks they know how to help, but will probably do more harm than good.
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    actually a great deal of the artists HAVE been to africa and have been to hard hit areas - something i would imagine few here have done. The charities take out celebs to africa to show them and make sure they DO know what they are talking about.
    That's irrelevant. All the artists that performed at Live 8 had successful careers and suficient money to help Africa, but instead, they perform 3 songs in front of a multi-billion global crowd, thus increasing their publicity massively.

    Many of them showed almost non-existent knowledge about Africa's problems, and for those who could, during their interviews, muster any sense of relevancy or coherence, they merely repeated the same claims as everybody else, namely:
    "Every three seconds, a child dies"
    "If 50,000 people died every day here, you could be sure that those 8 men would do something about it"
    "We need to get aid straight to the people, and not to the governments".

    One possibly pedantic, but possibly fundamentally demonstrative of the artists' hypocrisy is highlighted in the quote above:
    The charities take out celebs to africa
    a) They shouldn't need to be "taken out" to Africa by other people - they're amongst the richest in the world
    b) If only the last two words were missing: The charities take out celebs - That would be worth watching.

    How much money gates has doesnt affect Africa. But he has donated more to africa than most countries do. He has donated literally billions of dollars, been there many times, and is an avid supporter of vaccination programs, help with drug costs etc.
    Since you're quite obviously Christian, perhaps this may help you to understand my point:

    “Never measure your generosity by what you give, but rather by what you have left.” — Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

    No one is claiming its just about wiping the slate clean, no one thinks that africa is being held back just by debts. as much is actually due to corruption - more money is stolen through corruption than spent on health and education in many countries.
    There are no steps to combat corruption in the Live 8 'plans', but just to abolish debt / increase aid.

    Jesus died on the cross to give us a clean slate. He didn't just get a slapped bum or a papercut.
    :confused:
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    (Original post by Worzo)
    To continue that analogy, I feel that Live 8 is more like a first-aider who thinks they know how to help, but will probably do more harm than good.
    So tell us, what can Live 8 possibly do to harm africa. Live 8 is basically a rally to try and get leaders to help africa more. It wants us to get rid of debts and make trade fairer.
    It in no way says 'this is how it must be done'. It leaves it to our economics geniuses and planners to figure that out. It just shows there is big impetus for change.
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    Thought I would post this from the BNP website.

    One of our regular readers submits an open letter to Sir Bob Geldof; World Leader and head of the Live8 Charity Concerts.

    Dear Sir Bob

    Congratulations on bringing yourself to the attention of the nation once again. You have a supreme talent at self-promotion and the newspapers are talking about 5 billion people watching you and your chums in action over the next few days from the various concerts around the world. I didn’t know there were so many television sets; does everyone in China, Bolivia and Angola have a television set? Everyone from the Andes to the Andaman Islands will know your name of course, well that is if they do not already. You must be the biggest brand name in the world after Coca-Cola. Not even our glorious leader, Tony Blair gets such global television attention and that takes some doing.

    What was it all about again? I have had so many “big names” thrown at me by every media outlet in Britain that one could be forgiven for not remembering what it was all about again. There are some jolly good bands playing at Hyde Park today; I must confess I like Coldplay and the talented rock legends that are REM and Pink Floyd. Quite a few titled gentleman there as well. I see Sir Elton John and Sir Paul McCartney as well as your own titled self. All very overwhelming it is. All very easy to forget that the concerts are not about big names but actually little names; Patience Musaveni, Daniel Magimu and the other pupils of that little school at Kariri in Uganda, for example, yes millions of little names.

    How many of the thousands flocking to Hyde Park, how many of the millions watching the televised proceedings from Hyde Park, how many of your so called celebrity chums have really analysed the situation in Africa? But who needs analysis. It’s the height of summer and it is a great excuse for a big party, time for those aging hippies to make a comeback, dust down their guitars and boost royalties. You might think I am being rather cynical, bur Sir Bob you must know a lot of people, good honest sincere people share my cynicism.

    With every media outlet shouting loud and clear that Africa is a desperately poor continent with millions suffering from hunger, disease and embroiled in ethnic conflicts, it is easy for listeners, viewers and readers to get caught up in the ceaseless flow of heart-tugging stories from journalists.

    You have been there Sir Bob and you know that Africa is a continent of tragedies and paradoxically of great wealth, it is a treasure trove of minerals, of rich soils, might waterways and lush forests. It could be basket of riches inside of being a basket case. The west has been throwing aid to Africa for the past few decades of post-colonialism. Much of that aid is misdirected and ends up in Swiss banks, funding the extravagant lifestyles of some of the world’s cruellest, most corrupt and wicked despots.

    So here is one suggestion for your Live8 team to consider. How about that any aid given by British taxpayers be conditional on some major reforms? One of those could be stopping the medical schools and universities of those nations we try to assist turning into cheap sources of skilled personnel for our NHS. Do you not think that it is morally wrong that the British NHS continues to poach the very people from these learning institutions who can help turn today’s desperately ill and malnourished youngsters in sub-Saharan Africa into tomorrow’s generation of farmers, tradesmen and shopkeepers?

    Let me spell out what I mean. One of the most important aid contributions by Britain would be the return over a period of a decade of those thousands of Africans who have taken up work in British hospitals. A very rewarding resettlement package could be offered to every Nigerian and Sudanese doctor, every nurse from Malawi, Uganda and Botswana. In addition, apart from short term advanced training no doctor or nurse need ever come to work in Britain to be used as cheap labour for the NHS. It is simple common sense, a very moral and lofty idea but one very tangible solution that I have never seen mentioned by your team or do you just want our “f888ing money”, unconditionally?

    Perhaps as big hearted as you are, you might consider that to be a rather “racist” proposal but is it any more “racist” than the underlying perception seen coming from you and your liberal chums, all very nice people of course who would not claim to have one ounce of racism in their delicate souls, that the wealthy west must continue to fund Africa because Africans are incapable of sorting out their own problems. It sounds as if you are suggesting some sort of inability of Rwandans and Zambians to feed their own people and that the west must show them how it has to be done. Isn’t that rather a superior, colonialist and racist attitude to take Mr Geldof?

    There are so many issues to address here at home as well. Many of your fans would like you to take on the role to sort some of these issues which have been wearing us down on the homefront.

    When you have resolved all of Africa’s problems which shouldn’t take long, after all you managed to get the western governments to promise billons in aid, yes when you have done that can you get some of your celebrity chums to do a similar concert for British pensioners? Did you know that last year 22,000 pensioners died in just a few weeks over the winter from the cold? Did you know that nearly 1 in 5 pensioners goes cold each winter because they cannot afford to heat their homes. What colour wristbands will you and chums be wearing to signal your solidarity with British old folk?

    Good luck with the globe trotting, it can be very tiring but hey you might get a sainthood out of this. Just what or who you could be patron saint of is open to suggestion.

    Yours

    A. Briton
    Long Fleeced-by-Taxation
    Underwhelmington
    Fatigueshire
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    So poverty is history!

    After the festivities of Live 8 yesterday and the end of poverty throughout the world, what should our marching bands turn their attention to now?

    I think they should have a concert that makes war history. Maybe wait twenty years because yesterdays concert has solved the worlds problems for the next twenty years, just like the last one right?!

    On a more seious note, I don't know what I think of Live 8. It's good that it raises awareness, but then if there are people who don't already know about the suffering in the world then they're pretty damn ignorant. Was it a concert just to make people feel good, like they've actually done something productive? Maybe but it's good to know people care. Will the G8 do anything as a result? Perhaps we should ask if they CAN do anything. Cancel debt and the corrupt governments get the money, even if they are not corrupt the money will not get to those who really need it - I believe the money will benefit more middle-class Africa than working-class. So cancelling the debt is not the answer, but the G8 can do nothing about the crippling trade restriction of the EU. America are the only nation that can change American trade restrictions but they are already beginning to lose jobs to China.
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    God some of you guys disgust me. You would poo poo the efforts of a first aider in trying to stem an injured mans bleeding for not being able to heal him there and then.
    (Original post by Worzo)
    To continue that analogy, I feel that Live 8 is more like a first-aider who thinks they know how to help, but will probably do more harm than good.
    I agree with this extension of the analogy - Live 8 will not help Africa. That is a fact. I'm sorry if people on here are too idealistic to accept that, but it's true.

    The people who can make a difference are the 8 leaders meeting at Gleneagles. What they do will not be affected by this rock concert, but by their desire to help African people out of poverty by a rational solution, ignoring the impulsive cries of help from the Live 8 organisers.

    The only achievement of Live 8 is that it has raised the matter of Africa in the public eye for a short period. It will have died out, undoubtedly, by Christmas, and fundamentally, these free concerts will not so much be remembered as ground breaking, making poverty history, but will fall into another futile attempt by the misguided Bob Geldof, and his band of merry millionaire musicians, to advertise their music on a global scale without any cost whatsoever.
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    Live 8 will do something, even if that something has very little effect. Bob Geldof wasn't saying the problem was easy to solve, he knows that putting on those concerts would barely do enough to scratch the surface of the problem. All he wanted to do was to raise awareness, and give a little power to the people, to come together and try and make some kind of stance. I don't know why people knock the man, I know sometimes he might seem a little misguided in his ideals, but I really don't see the harm in what he's done.
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    That's irrelevant. All the artists that performed at Live 8 had successful careers and suficient money to help Africa, but instead, they perform 3 songs in front of a multi-billion global crowd, thus increasing their publicity massively.

    Many of them showed almost non-existent knowledge about Africa's problems, and for those who could, during their interviews, muster any sense of relevancy or coherence, they merely repeated the same claims as everybody else, namely:
    "Every three seconds, a child dies"
    "If 50,000 people died every day here, you could be sure that those 8 men would do something about it"
    "We need to get aid straight to the people, and not to the governments".

    One possibly pedantic, but possibly fundamentally demonstrative of the artists' hypocrisy is highlighted in the quote above:

    a) They shouldn't need to be "taken out" to Africa by other people - they're amongst the richest in the world
    b) If only the last two words were missing: The charities take out celebs - That would be worth watching.


    Since you're quite obviously Christian, perhaps this may help you to understand my point:

    “Never measure your generosity by what you give, but rather by what you have left.” — Bishop Fulton J. Sheen


    There are no steps to combat corruption in the Live 8 'plans', but just to abolish debt / increase aid.


    :confused:
    1) it may be that some get a publicity boost out of live 8, but to insinuate thats the only reason some of them do it is highly cynical. If i wanted to raise money i would do it best by going collecting or doing a sponsored bungee jump (which shock horror i may enjoy). They do it by performing in front of tens of thousands, and thus make millions for charity.

    2) "They shouldn't need to be "taken out" to Africa by other people - they're amongst the richest in the world"
    What are you talkign about. Its hardly like you can say 'right, today im going to go see some poor people in Nairobi. The charities invite people like celebs and fundraisers to go see some of their projects and target areas in africa and meet people on a personal level to see the bredth of the problem. Its rather different than if a celeb took a 4x4 car out through the slums to see how smelly and dirty it really is.

    3) the repeated nature of the claims is a device to increase impact. Its a psychological type method, as was introducing the girl from the previous live aid concert video - its about humanising the people so they cease to just be numbers.

    4) “Never measure your generosity by what you give, but rather by what you have left.” actually im not christian, i simply said that as its an allegory i figured christians may appreciate.
    however your quote is quite true, but think of it like this - how much do u think these celebs time is worth. the spend at least a week rehearsing and practicing for this event (which they arent paid for). thats actually quite a donation. Now you cant use that quote without sticking to it. its almost communist like the insinuation that because they are rich they must give nearly all their money in order to have credibility.
    Plus how do you know how much they give to charity? they regularly donate clothes for charity auctions, appear at charity events, act as ambassadors for charities etc.

    Whats the most you've done for charity?
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    I agree with this extension of the analogy - Live 8 will not help Africa. That is a fact. I'm sorry if people on here are too idealistic to accept that, but it's true.

    The people who can make a difference are the 8 leaders meeting at Gleneagles. What they do will not be affected by this rock concert, but by their desire to help African people out of poverty by a rational solution, ignoring the impulsive cries of help from the Live 8 organisers.

    The only achievement of Live 8 is that it has raised the matter of Africa in the public eye for a short period. It will have died out, undoubtedly, by Christmas, and fundamentally, these free concerts will not so much be remembered as ground breaking, making poverty history, but will fall into another futile attempt by the misguided Bob Geldof, and his band of merry millionaire musicians, to advertise their music on a global scale without any cost whatsoever.
    [rolls eyes]
    these leaders ARENT giving away THEIR money. they are giving OURS. and thus us sending out a strong message that WE support increased help for africa is giving them the incentive to DO SOMETHING.

    This cynicism of those that would try to help just reflects poorly on yourself. These people spend more of their time, effort and money in one year on charity than you will in your entire life.
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    As much as it pains me to say so, I agree largely with many of the sentiments in the open letter by the BNP member. Geldof needs to stop telling us what to do, and eBay what to do, and Africa what to do. He is a man who has far too much self importance and, as the letter rightly points out, his attitude is not entirely detatched from the imperialist dogma that most of Africa so intrinsically detests.
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    I don't have a problem with Geldof himself - it's a very honourable cause and he deserves praise for achieving his aim of raising awareness. However, he's simply giving out the wrong message: that Africa's problems can be solved by what the G8 leaders do. It's an attempt to externalise the real issue and put the responsibility in the hands of someone else.

    This simply isn't true.

    The real message is far more sobering.

    The responsiblity is ours. I would feel horribly hypocritical to give to Live 8 and support all of what it stands for when I' live like a king compared to the majority of Africans, and that is why I feel angry towards it for telling people that the way we live is fine, and that it's possible to help Africa develop whilst we still pursue our materialistic western goals.

    The only way we're going to help Africa is if we change the way we live. Unfortunately no one wants to give up their second car or their laptop. I know I'd find it hard. Wouldn't you?
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    I think there were lots of people going just for the hell of it, not knowing the true purpose. When ever each band came up, I thought it was great that they kept on reminding all the people what its all about. So therefore there was A LOT of support, bringing a lot of awareness to people so that they can help. I believe that every inch of effort counts, what is wrong with trying? There was no harm in doing this, but certainly the message was there, I hope the emotional images and videos have brought something to the people, it certainly did for me. Perhaps now people will do more to help; volunteering in africa, charity, etc.

    I don't know if any of you saw the richard and judy show, but there was a reporter in africa and he asked around about live 8. The majority of the Africans didn't even know what live 8 was.

    I don't know if it will help africa in a large scale, perhaps this was a diversion from the Iraq activities, I don't know, only time can tell.
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    As much as it pains me to say so, I agree largely with many of the sentiments in the open letter by the BNP member. Geldof needs to stop telling us what to do, and eBay what to do, and Africa what to do. He is a man who has far too much self importance and, as the letter rightly points out, his attitude is not entirely detatched from the imperialist dogma that most of Africa so intrinsically detests.
    Would the BNP also say that the pope should stop trying to tell us what to do?
    Or how about America telling the world what to do?

    Personally im not about to fault someone for having moral integrity and the will to try to change the world for the better.
    Even if it ruffles the feathers of those jealous of the attention, fame and respect it brings
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    (Original post by Worzo)
    I don't have a problem with Geldof himself - it's a very honourable cause and he deserves praise for achieving his aim of raising awareness. However, he's simply giving out the wrong message: that Africa's problems can be solved by what the G8 leaders do. It's an attempt to externalise the real issue and put the responsibility in the hands of someone else.

    This simply isn't true.

    The real message is far more sobering.

    The responsiblity is ours. I would feel horribly hypocritical to give to Live 8 and support all of what it stands for when I' live like a king compared to the majority of Africans, and that is why I feel angry towards it for telling people that the way we live is fine, and that it's possible to help Africa develop whilst we still pursue our materialistic western goals.

    The only way we're going to help Africa is if we change the way we live. Unfortunately no one wants to give up their second car or their laptop. I know I'd find it hard. Wouldn't you?
    indeed. it is true that our wealth will probablary take a dent if we were truly to help africa. the world seems to be a bit like a game of poker (anyone ever played for money/matchsticks). when one guy has a big pot its stupidly hard to win because they can go all in whenever they wish.

    realistically there is only a finite amount of wealth in the world, and improving the lot of africa will mean us relinquishing a certain share of that wealth.
 
 
 

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