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Live 8: benefitting Africa or benefitting us? watch

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    (Original post by Jamie)
    indeed. it is true that our wealth will probablary take a dent if we were truly to help africa. the world seems to be a bit like a game of poker (anyone ever played for money/matchsticks). when one guy has a big pot its stupidly hard to win because they can go all in whenever they wish.

    realistically there is only a finite amount of wealth in the world, and improving the lot of africa will mean us relinquishing a certain share of that wealth.
    Unfortunately not a lot of people realise that. That's probably why I feel uneasy when I'm confronted with the issue.
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    (Original post by Worzo)
    Unfortunately not a lot of people realise that. That's probably why I feel uneasy when I'm confronted with the issue.
    but you can at least so how people like Geldof and Ure who have seen the problem first hand, seen that africa is actually going downhill, not up (people are worse off there now than they were 20 years ago) just can't ignore the problem, and try to help bring awareness and support the best way they know how?
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    1) it may be that some get a publicity boost out of live 8, but to insinuate thats the only reason some of them do it is highly cynical. If i wanted to raise money i would do it best by going collecting or doing a sponsored bungee jump (which shock horror i may enjoy). They do it by performing in front of tens of thousands, and thus make millions for charity.
    5 billion audience. No performance fees. At least trebled CD sales.

    People are not selfless: I accept that. But for Bono (of whose music I am a big fan) to come out and tell the world all about the poverty of Africa in the same week when he, with an estimated fortune of over US$100 million, is suing a women about a hat, is the largest hypocrisy I can imagine. For Bill Gates, and every other artist, comedian that performed yesterday, they will gain money. It's hypocrisy at its most evident, and I will not be made to feel guilty by these millionaires and billionaires, who collectively, could martyr their economic wealth and save Africa from poverty permanently. But they will not make the sacrifice. Instead, they want our government to spend our money to make them feel like they're helping. I cannot, and will not accept the selfish and greedy acts of these international superstars whose performances are little more than free publicity and huge ego trips.

    (Original post by Jamie)
    4) “Never measure your generosity by what you give, but rather by what you have left.” actually im not christian, i simply said that as its an allegory i figured christians may appreciate.
    however your quote is quite true, but think of it like this - how much do u think these celebs time is worth. the spend at least a week rehearsing and practicing for this event (which they arent paid for). thats actually quite a donation. Now you cant use that quote without sticking to it. its almost communist like the insinuation that because they are rich they must give nearly all their money in order to have credibility.
    Plus how do you know how much they give to charity? they regularly donate clothes for charity auctions, appear at charity events, act as ambassadors for charities etc.
    Again:
    One week work; fiften minutes performance; massively boosted sales; possibly relaunched careers.
    Well worth the seemingly altruistic sacrifice of these people.

    Would the BNP also say that the pope should stop trying to tell us what to do?
    Pope leads Catholic Church, and is appointed by God. He should not express his own view points, but those of God to which he has been spiritually enlightened.

    Or how about America telling the world what to do?
    Not true. If our elected governments choose to follow America, that's our decision.

    Bob Geldof is a failed rock star who realised that he had become superfluous to the improvements of Africa and needed to remind the world how good he is, along with his millionaire friends, to maintain their pretence of self importance.

    Even if it ruffles the feathers of those jealous of the attention, fame and respect it brings
    Whats the most you've done for charity?
    This cynicism of those that would try to help just reflects poorly on yourself. These people spend more of their time, effort and money in one year on charity than you will in your entire life.
    "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honoured by men. I tell you the truth; they have received their reward in full." Matthew, 6:2
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    but you can at least so how people like Geldof and Ure who have seen the problem first hand, seen that africa is actually going downhill, not up (people are worse off there now than they were 20 years ago) just can't ignore the problem, and try to help bring awareness and support the best way they know how?
    Like I said, it's great what that they are raising awareness and getting us to talk about it, but they've just missed the opportunity to tell people the real story that we're going to have to make sacrifices that actually reduce our rate of development in order to increase the rate of development of Africa. It's a simple equation in that respect. Unfortunately I can't see Geldof getting up on stage and telling people that they're can't live the way they do. That would make everyone feel bad and make him unpopular. Somehow he's managing to make people feel better. It doesn't seem right.
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    live 8 wasnt just supposed to be a "mass protest"/"fundraising", it was also to raise awareness of the problems in africa, and the G8 which gives the biggest chance to a first step towards solving the problems. By looking how so many are questioning if Live8 will help, the fact is in a way it already has started to. Say it had never happened, there was no live 8 and no march to edinburgh - how many of the people here would still be discussing poverty right now, would still know what G8 is, would still know about its goals? yesterday i spoke to 2 people who had no idea what G8 was until they had heard about live8.

    So i think, tho a mass worldwide rock concert may not have help directly, its raised an awareness of the issues and a worldwide urge by people to actually have something done, which would have been highly unlikely to have existed without it. Ok, so 5.5billion people (apparently...) didnt watch live8 on tv just because it was aimed at reducing poverty, 200,000 people at hyde, 1.5million at philly didnt go to the concerts because of what they stood for. But 5.5billion people now know about the problems, the solutions and the fact that the toffs at G8 have a chance to do something collectivly. Now that 85% of the world (apparently...) are no longer ignorant to the problems and possible routes to start solving them, the toffs are hardly going to come out of G8 with some half-assed decisions
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    Oh,. and thermoregulatio - I thought I agreed with you to begin with, but now it's clear you just have something against Geldof. He's not really a failed rock star is he? I thought he was rather successful.
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    (Original post by Worzo)
    Oh,. and thermoregulatio - I thought I agreed with you to begin with, but now it's clear you just have something against Geldof. He's not really a failed rock star is he? I thought he was rather successful.
    he was a so so rock star with happy mondays, but got caught up in the whole charity thing long ago.
    he actually has voiced how much he hates the burden on him as an ambassador for the whole movement, and would love nothing more than bugger off out of public life, but he couldnt live with himself being so selfish as to abandon the movement.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Why?
    Do you even accept that the state of certain countires in Afirca is not a good one? And that in a global world if one part is in trouble soon or later it affects the other parts?
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    It disgusts me that Bill Gates can walk out onto a free worldwide advertising stage and proclaim his support for "trade justice". Gates has, it is estimated, around US$40 billion last time I checked. That isn't helping Africa.
    do you have any idea how much money Gates gives to charity?
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    (Original post by thermoregulatio)
    5 billion audience. No performance fees. At least trebled CD sales.

    People are not selfless: I accept that. But for Bono (of whose music I am a big fan) to come out and tell the world all about the poverty of Africa in the same week when he, with an estimated fortune of over US$100 million, is suing a women about a hat, is the largest hypocrisy I can imagine. For Bill Gates, and every other artist, comedian that performed yesterday, they will gain money. It's hypocrisy at its most evident, and I will not be made to feel guilty by these millionaires and billionaires, who collectively, could martyr their economic wealth and save Africa from poverty permanently. But they will not make the sacrifice. Instead, they want our government to spend our money to make them feel like they're helping. I cannot, and will not accept the selfish and greedy acts of these international superstars whose performances are little more than free publicity and huge ego trips.


    Again:
    One week work; fiften minutes performance; massively boosted sales; possibly relaunched careers.
    Well worth the seemingly altruistic sacrifice of these people.


    Pope leads Catholic Church, and is appointed by God. He should not express his own view points, but those of God to which he has been spiritually enlightened.


    Not true. If our elected governments choose to follow America, that's our decision.

    Bob Geldof is a failed rock star who realised that he had become superfluous to the improvements of Africa and needed to remind the world how good he is, along with his millionaire friends, to maintain their pretence of self importance.




    "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honoured by men. I tell you the truth; they have received their reward in full." Matthew, 6:2
    1) you think microsoft will inc sales because bill gates was on stage for 2 mins? :confused:
    Also you seem to forget these people are citizens of the countries too. madonna, chris martin, razorlight pay their taxes just like you and me. or should they not express their opinion over what is done with THEIR country and THEIR money... :p:

    2) there is no such thing as altruism. i may go collecting for charity, but the warm feeling it gives me afterward means it fails to be altruistic.

    3) Your knowledge on the workings of the church are obviously highly lacking
    the pope is not appointed by god. the pope has never been appointed by god. where did you get this nonsence? He is appointed by cardinals. Now if a different guy has be appointed pope then we would see the church teaching slightly different and putting emphasis on different things. Ratzingers personal opinion is massively against contraception in africa (and generally very conservative), whereas other cardinals are much more accepting and liberal.

    4) "If our elected governments choose to follow America, that's our decision."
    and if we chose to follow what Geldof is saying than it is our right too.
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    (Original post by Worzo)
    Like I said, it's great what that they are raising awareness and getting us to talk about it, but they've just missed the opportunity to tell people the real story that we're going to have to make sacrifices that actually reduce our rate of development in order to increase the rate of development of Africa. It's a simple equation in that respect. Unfortunately I can't see Geldof getting up on stage and telling people that they're can't live the way they do. That would make everyone feel bad and make him unpopular. Somehow he's managing to make people feel better. It doesn't seem right.
    I agree entirely, which is why the hypocrisy of the line-up at the Live 8 concerts particularly frustrated me, and perhaps led to my specific 'attack' on Bob Geldof. What people don't realise about Geldof is just how rich he is.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...io/1495976.stm
    "Further down the list [of UK media broadcasters wealth] at number 18 comes Bob Geldof. His involvement with Castaway Productions, which makes Survivor, and the radio production firm Ten Alps bring his fortune to £30m."
    He, Bono, Bill Gates, and the other rock stars who performed at Live 8, had a combined wealth well over $50 billion. They aren't the right sort of people to be talking about "justice" and "poverty", when they aren't willing to make the sacrifices that they beg of the rest of us.

    The fundamental problem is that Worzo has identified entirely correctly. The West is rich, yes, but at the minute, it is not as strong as it has been. The US and Canada will not drop massive import prices, because of the increasing US deficit and their trade links with Canada. The four European countries cannot act on reducing the EU's ridiculous import taxes without the support of 25 other nations, many of whom are also in desperate poverty, and neither can Russia or Japan, whose economies have, quite spectacularly, collapsed in the last twenty years.

    Progress cannot be made without sacrifice. The entire Western world, including myself, the large majority of this board's members, and the entire cast of Live 8, struggle to make this sacrifice, and until we are willing to give up our plentiful supply of doctors, poached from developing African nations, our low prices on oil, obtained by exploiting oil-producing poverty-stricken nations, and our cheap food supply, we cannot make progress.

    I do not think that Live Aid achieves any of the goals of world reformation, not just African, that is needed if its supporters genuinely want to make poverty history.
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    I agree with the fact that Live 8 just makes rich countries feel better, thinking they do something to help the poorer..but actually this big party didn't help them anyways..

    It was suposed to be made for the peole from Africa, like kids and so on but they wern't even there !! It's kinda stupid, they didn't even make a cocnert in Africe..ok, there is Joanesbourg but it's not the town which needs hep the most..
    I think we should stop to be hypocrites..we all know this party was just aimeda t making people feel better about those POOR COUNTRIES where ppl are dying from war, or starvatin everyday..and because we are just exploitin them !!

    If we want to change sth,first, we should consider them a little bit more..not just as cheap labour
    Ok, i just think we do not have enough respect for them..

    Well there is too many things to say about that..hehe i dnt have the time !! lol
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    There seems to be a lot of knocking of the idealistic goal of removing poverty, all I have got to say is at least these people are trying to save lives which by the sounds of it is more than most of the people in this country are trying to do....
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    exactly....i'm not going to reiterate what everyone one this post have argued (btw some very good arguements here!) but in the end of the day, something, albeit good/bad is being done about the situation.

    regardless of whether it glorifies western countries or whatnot, the point is that there are some people in this world who care passionately enough to do what they can. you cannot expect them to give away their money completely, that's a relatively short term solution.

    if they wanted to give money they could have charged money for the tickets rather than handing them out for free, but they didn't. live8 is trying to do more than that...tryying to seek a more permanent solutuion to the problem. eradicating debts (as they claim) is better than giving money out which will indirectly be used to pay off these debts anyway.

    cut some slack for the people that are trying to do something...regardless of how big or little it is...the day you decide to get off ur arse and do 'anything' for a cause u believe in, then talk.

    o btw....what nutter said bill gates had $40 billion etc etc....doofus brain he's given out soo much money it's unbelievable. he's giving his kids like $10 million each...yet he's donated literally billions and billions to charities worldwide. there's a man who's got his priorities straight.

    and the reason ppl like celebs are the one's telling us to give support whilst they live a lavish lifestyle anyway..be realistic...whos' going to listen to someone they haven't heard of. celebs have enourmous (how'd you spell that btw?!) influence, it comes with their job, so atleast they are saying SOMETHING.

    my 2 cents (or shall i say pennies )
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    actually a great deal of the artists HAVE been to africa and have been to hard hit areas - something i would imagine few here have done. The charities take out celebs to africa to show them and make sure they DO know what they are talking about.

    No one is claiming its just about wiping the slate clean, no one thinks that africa is being held back just by debts. as much is actually due to corruption - more money is stolen through corruption than spent on health and education in many countries.

    But the message to the G8 is clear - we - the people you represent DO care about this issue, and do think we need to start taking much more serious long term steps than empty promises and token amount of aid.

    Jesus died on the cross to give us a clean slate. He didn't just get a slapped bum or a papercut.
    Im not talking about "the artists" im talking about the normal people who once they have heard Bob Geldof think they know what they are talking about.

    You have no idea about it until you have been there yourself and seen it. My own family was kicked out of Nigeria and forced to surrender 5 sapphire mines becuase the govt didnt like the idea of us taking so much out of the country, despite the fact that all my grandafthers employees were well looked after, he gave back. The governments dont want to get help, thats the problem.

    I dont mean massive disrespect here, becuase a few people seem to have some idea, but a lot of people that talk about this issue, and not only here but elsewhere ive been actually dont have a fricking clue whats actually going on.
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    In an unrelated matter, lucky the Suid Afrika concert is in Jo'burg and not Pretoria, the crowd would be substancially smaller. The Transvaals scare me.
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    (Original post by thebadboy2k1)
    exactly....i'm not going to reiterate what everyone one this post have argued (btw some very good arguements here!) but in the end of the day, something, albeit good/bad is being done about the situation.

    regardless of whether it glorifies western countries or whatnot, the point is that there are some people in this world who care passionately enough to do what they can. you cannot expect them to give away their money completely, that's a relatively short term solution.

    if they wanted to give money they could have charged money for the tickets rather than handing them out for free, but they didn't. live8 is trying to do more than that...tryying to seek a more permanent solutuion to the problem. eradicating debts (as they claim) is better than giving money out which will indirectly be used to pay off these debts anyway.

    cut some slack for the people that are trying to do something...regardless of how big or little it is...the day you decide to get off ur arse and do 'anything' for a cause u believe in, then talk.

    o btw....what nutter said bill gates had $40 billion etc etc....doofus brain he's given out soo much money it's unbelievable. he's giving his kids like $10 million each...yet he's donated literally billions and billions to charities worldwide. there's a man who's got his priorities straight.

    and the reason ppl like celebs are the one's telling us to give support whilst they live a lavish lifestyle anyway..be realistic...whos' going to listen to someone they haven't heard of. celebs have enourmous (how'd you spell that btw?!) influence, it comes with their job, so atleast they are saying SOMETHING.

    my 2 cents (or shall i say pennies )
    actually live 8 made more money through the 'lottery' system than it would have by simply selling the tickets. after all it would be totally against the spirit of the concert o price out people form the concert (by putting tickets at 50 quid say).
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    someone mite hav already said this...
    but the actual live aid concerts hugely benefit the music artists.. could it be a way to sell more records rather than making poverty history??
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    (Original post by Annik)
    someone mite hav already said this...
    but the actual live aid concerts hugely benefit the music artists.. could it be a way to sell more records rather than making poverty history??
    Like juniour docs only go to africa to practice on people so as to polish up their skills and add something to their CV?
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    Like juniour docs only go to africa to practice on people so as to polish up their skills and add something to their CV?
    :rolleyes:

    hm.... sure.....
 
 
 

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