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    (Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
    I said that that's one reason. There's no real way to do it on an internet forum.
    Look, i am letting this go. I am sure you appreciate that out of this you are being handed a significant advantage in Parliament. Any Party with twice the debating strength of the closest opposition Party had the upper hand as far as i'm concerned.

    This is a provisional decision - If we start to see Liberal tyranny in the House, then you can expect reform.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Clearly your Party is not the slightest bit disciplined, and you are not willing to make a realistic compromise.
    You have already stated in a PM to me the real reason is that you can't be bothered selecting members again.

    Mods: Just let in all the Party usergroup members in, neither I, nor Labour agree with this move but i can't be bothered debating it with someone who is not willing to negotiate.
    We'll see how it goes.
    Beekeeper, buzz off. Half of your posts criticise the Lib Dems in one way or the other. If this all it takes to reduce you to name calling and insults, then I look forward to meeting you in Parliment.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Beekeeper, buzz off. Half of your posts criticise the Lib Dems in one way or the other. If this all it takes to reduce you to name calling and insults, then I look forward to meeting you in Parliment.
    I hope this is not how you're going to respond to disagreements with your policies.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Beekeeper, buzz off. Half of your posts criticise the Lib Dems in one way or the other. If this all it takes to reduce you to name calling and insults, then I look forward to meeting you in Parliment.
    I don't really think that comment was provoked.

    I have reasoned everything i have said here, whereas you have just appeared and started throwing around insults.

    The only people who are making this difficult are the liberal democrats, who are insistent on taking every member with them.
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    The Conservatives want a fair and proportional allocation of seats in debate, and i have been informed by the leaders of both Labour and the Green Party that they feel the same.

    The only people hindering this process now are the lib dems. Kondar, this is not a personal insult, much of tsr feels the same, and we would appreciate some progress soon.
    For heavens sake, even sects of your own Party support a more fair composition. Wake up.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    I don't really think that comment was provoked.

    I have reasoned everything i have said here, whereas you have just appeared and started throwing around insults.

    The only people who are making this difficult are the liberal democrats, who are insistent on taking every member with them.
    Then chill out with the accustations. This is just getting started, there are going to be problems in the beginning and we'll get through them.

    Relax

    I challenge you to provide me with a single example when I have insulted either you or your party?
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Then chill out with the accustations. This is just getting started, there are going to be problems in the beginning and we'll get through them.

    Relax

    I challenge you to provide me with a single example when I have insulted either you or your party?
    There has been consultation with all of the Party members, but it is your Party that appears to be the sore thumb here. If you go back just one page, you will also see that it is your leader that brought this up for debate in the public forum.
    Your leader has chosen a completely different composition than the Conservatives, Labour and the Greens, without any good reason, other than "I can't be bothered selecting again".

    There is a very simple and reasonable suggestion on the table, and, because he can't be bothered, only your leader has has refused to accept it.

    The fact that other Liberal Democrats have proposed completely different ideas demonstrates just how divided your party is.
    I suggest you get in touch with your own Party before you start insulting other members.

    Remember, i chose to do this over PM, so i'm not trying to make some big performance. It was 2+2=5 that chose to expose these problems.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    There has been consultation with all of the Party members, but it is your Party that appears to be the sore thumb here. If you go back just one page, you will also see that it is your leader that brought this up for debate in the public forum.
    Your leader has chosen a completely different composition than the Conservatives, Labour and the Greens, without any good reason, other than "I can't be bothered selecting again".

    There is a very simple and reasonable suggestion on the table, and, because he can't be bothered, only your leader has has refused to accept it.

    The fact that other Liberal Democrats have proposed completely different ideas demonstrates just how divided your party is.
    I suggest you get in touch with your own Party before you start insulting other members.
    Beekeeper, honestly, how complicated do you want to make this? Parliament is going to become so tied down in 'who can say what' 'who can contribute' 'who can discuss certain issues' 'who cant discuss certain issues' that it is going to be slowed down to a crawl.

    Parliament is in its infant stage on TSR, we need to open it up to bring it to life, not close it off and limit it.

    I suggest that
    -anyone can read the threads
    -anyone can comment in the thread
    -only voting MPs can vote

    This will keep everyone involved including the newbies and the less active members.
    This will also give those party members who did not receive a voting seat an opportunity to become active and work towards obtaining one.

    Again, I can find about a dozen adjectives where you negatively depict the lib dems, yet I challenge you to find one where I have insulted either you or your party.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    The fact that other Liberal Democrats have proposed completely different ideas demonstrates just how divided your party is.
    I suggest you get in touch with your own Party before you start insulting other members.
    actually just about EVERYONE is divided on this, myself included.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    I don't really think that comment was provoked.

    I have reasoned everything i have said here, whereas you have just appeared and started throwing around insults.

    The only people who are making this difficult are the liberal democrats, who are insistent on taking every member with them.
    the idea is this. there is a core of perhaps no more than 40 people across all parties that will actively take part in debates time and time again. then there are people that will only take part in debates they have knowledge of/care about. You would deny them this.

    I think the parliment forum should be accessible to those in political parties but dont think theres any need for a great pruning run.
    House of commons should be for voting mps only and used for polls etc.
    a sub forum within house of commons is NOT on the cards.
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    Goodness no wonder politics in this country is in such a mess. I cannot believe there is such a fuss about what without meaning any disrespect is only an internet forum parliament.

    It just shows how politically inclined people are desperate for their little bit of power and cannot be reasonable in the face of their battle for it. Its like a forum for primary school children - but I suppose this only mirrors the House of Commons.

    Finally, if nothing else at least post will make you united in disliking me.
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    This shall be resolved have no fear. You can depend on me to be quite a moderate and neutral Lib Dem, I'm not a very aggressive person though in debate I can be forceful but not spiteful. Our party is divided at all, we all talked about this and agreed, hence why none of us really differed.

    - Dexnell
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    I think EVERYONE should be able to view.
    Non-voting MPs should be able to post.
    Voting reserved to voting MPs.
    Yeh exactly for once i agree, otherwise if voting MP's can only post, then debates will be limited in terms of points made.
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    Myself and the party leaders are working towards a solution, but please continue to offer your opinions.
    • TSR Community Team
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    TSR Community Team
    While I think it woul be best if the non-voting MPs numbers were proportional to the votes cast oh so long ago in the election, it may make it unworkable/ a huge amount of effort to do so.

    I'd guess some of the more commited memebrs would be the voting MPs, while most of the non-voting MPs may be the less commited memebrs (though not all). But being less commited may mean you are more ikely to wander away and come on less often, meaning it may be necessary to regularly (ie every few days) update the list of which party members are non-voting MPs. I forsee keeping the voting MPs list up to date with active members being enough work, never mind ading in yet more people with the non-voting MPs.

    So maybe while the numbers interested are relativley small, it may be best to let all party members be MPs, with the selected few being voting MPs. This can come under review at anytime if we think it's easily workable or necessary to to the numbers involved to add in the middle, thrid, stage of non-voting MP between that of voting MP and party member.

    However, my believe is that initially we should make everything as simple as possible. No point in running in there with something overly complicated from the start (even if the more complciated system is considered slightly fairer or more equal) which make it hard upon everyone involved to figure out how things work. If rules and systmes are left simple from the start and added to as time goes on it will ease everyone into the Parliament and keep more people interested and understanding what is going on.

    So yep, I think the system of having all people able to view, all party memebrs as non-voting MPs being able to post and voting MPs being able to vote is the ebst inital system. Then the idea of having proportional numbers of non-voting MPs can be looked at a later date if it's thought necessary.
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    Vienna has informed me that under proposals currently under consideration parties would have to lose members in order to allow non-voting MPs.

    The Green Party is strongly opposed to this as surely everyone should be allowed to be a member of a party if they so wish. To force people to be ejected is surely against the spirit of the movement.

    I cannot see how people can support the current proposals and seek other voting MPs opinions.
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    (Original post by !Laxy!)
    Vienna has informed me that under proposals currently under consideration parties would have to lose members in order to allow non-voting MPs.

    The Green Party is strongly opposed to this as surely everyone should be allowed to be a member of a party if they so wish. To force people to be ejected is surely against the spirit of the movement.

    I cannot see how people can support the current proposals and seek other voting MPs opinions.
    I offered a proposal to the leaders of each party in private and in confidence, in the hope we could find a compromise that would meet everyones expectations. This has clearly been shown little respect by the Green Party.

    A thread is currently open in D+D, discussing this very matter where I invited everyone to give their opinions. I ask you to desist from posting these matters in the Commons.
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    (Original post by !Laxy!)
    Vienna has informed me that under proposals currently under consideration parties would have to lose members in order to allow non-voting MPs.

    The Green Party is strongly opposed to this as surely everyone should be allowed to be a member of a party if they so wish. To force people to be ejected is surely against the spirit of the movement.

    I cannot see how people can support the current proposals and seek other voting MPs opinions.
    The lib dems refused to accept the terms of the other proposals, despite backing from the Conservatives, Labour and the Greens.

    It would be unfair to allow 200 lib dems into Parliament, and members will be removed so that they are proportionate and fair. This is the only sollution.

    Vienna is right, this shouldn't be in the Commons, could it please be moved?
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    I offered a proposal to the leaders of each party in private and in confidence, in the hope we could find a compromise that would meet everyones expectations. This has clearly been shown little respect by the Green Party.

    A thread is currently open in D+D, discussing this very matter where I invited everyone to give their opinions. I ask you to desist from posting these matters in the Commons.
    At no point have you ever asked me not to post anything of this nature in the commons. You have also never said that this was in private.

    I would ask you madam speaker to refrain from making slanderous remarks against myself and the Green Party.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    The lib dems refused to accept the terms of the other proposals, despite backing from the Conservatives, Labour and the Greens.

    It would be unfair to allow 200 lib dems into Parliament, and members will be removed so that they are proportionate and fair. This is the only sollution.

    Vienna is right, this shouldn't be in the Commons, could it please be moved?
    So the lib dems can refuse and get away with it. Why can't the Greens?
 
 
 

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