Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    And you are willing to allow the selfish behaviour of a minority to dictate the lifestyle of a majority guilty of nothing. I, as a person, find that selfish and quite appalling. I am actually advocating the liberty of non-smokers to go into a pub environment (we simply don't have non-smoking pubs where I live) without having to breathe in others smoke.

    I think we've gone around in a circle once or twice by now, and neither of us are going to convince each other of anything.
    because you refuse to address any of my points. I replied to this argument before, and demonstrated it to be flawed on several levels.

    i) Smokers arent dictating anything. The bar manager decides what goes on in his bar and whether smoking is permitted.

    ii) Thats his right to choose, not yours and not the smokers.

    iii) You are willing to remove his rights and the rights of others to make an adult choice because of your own tastes.

    iv) you show no concern for free enterprise and market economics and state interference into either.

    v) you no better than everyone else whats best for them and what choice they would make.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vienna)
    i) Smokers arent dictating anything. The bar manager decides what goes on in his bar and whether smoking is permitted.

    ii) Thats his right to choose, not yours and not the smokers.
    sorry to but in at that but its not always the owners. company owned pubs have to follow company guidlines.

    Find a Weatherspoons. they have quite big non smoking areas and are soon going totaly non smoking.

    smoker have as much rights as non smokers to.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vienna)
    because you refuse to address any of my points. I replied to this argument before, and demonstrated it to be flawed on several levels.

    i) Smokers arent dictating anything. The bar manager decides what goes on in his bar and whether smoking is permitted.

    Yes, I am aware of this, but it is the smokers who are actually smoking.

    ii) Thats his right to choose, not yours and not the smokers.

    And I don't agree that they should have the right to choose when it is going to so adversely affect others.

    iii) You are willing to remove his rights and the rights of others to make an adult choice because of your own tastes.

    Yes, because I don't think they should have the choice when it is going to so adversely affect others.

    iv) you show no concern for free enterprise and market economics and state interference into either.

    Massive genralisation.

    v) you no better than everyone else whats best for them and what choice they would make.

    Already addressed.
    Vienna, it's quite simple: I simply disagree with you.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Brown Eyed Girl)

    smoker have as much rights as non smokers to.
    Well this is where I disagree, which is a fundamental point explaining our differing views.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Well this is where I disagree, which is a fundamental point explaining our differing views.
    so just because some one is smoking they have less rights?

    i believe that some people are rude when smoking in bus stops ect as i mentioned in a post a few minutes ago.
    Soon its going to be people who drive cars have less rights cause the pollution affects people.

    i personaly think the bar managers have rights to... they have to make a living and the total bans have killed sale in ireland.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Brown Eyed Girl)
    so just because some one is smoking they have less rights?
    Yes and no. I don't think they should have the right to pollute the surrounding area of others, but non-smokers obviously aren't concerned with this 'right' anyway, and so it could easily be argued that it shouldn't even be a right to have.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Yes and no. I don't think they should have the right to pollute the surrounding area of others, but non-smokers obviously aren't concerned with this 'right' anyway, and so it could easily be argued that it shouldn't even be a right to have.
    i agree in some situations like bus stops. people just need to leran consideration. i know smokers who wouldn't smoke around non smokers.. when people are eating. only in smoking areas ect.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Brown Eyed Girl)

    i personaly think the bar managers have rights to... they have to make a living and the total bans have killed sale in ireland.
    That last part is just so wrong that I challenge you to come up with your sources!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    i agree cos i find it extremely annoying when someone dilebrately smokes in my face whilst im walkin down the street. it damages my mask
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Vienna)
    Show me one inaccurate quote that I have attributed to you.
    Here's three for you for starters - all on just one post of yours #145

    "And don't do what yawn does. 'I am not a communist!' 'What rubbish'. 'I just believe that the state should have control over all private property'. "
    I challenge you now to locate my posts where I have uttered those words. :rolleyes:

    Vienna, you really are making a pig's ear out of your attempts to argue this thread - you usually have good points to make on all your other contributions. Not only the majority of people on this forum who have voted in this particular poll think that nothing less than a total ban on smoking in public places is necessary for the well-being of those who choose not to smoke, but this majority is illustrated by all polls, not only in England, but in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Why don't you just accept defeat on this point and go argue about something you might be able to influence on a different thread? :cool:
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Vienna)
    Well, at least someone is advocating choice and a sentiment other than their own hedonistic interest.
    If your post is a response to someone who supports the rights of smokers - then your suggestion that non-smokers are protecting their own hedonistic interests is laughable.

    Look at the meaning of the word hedonistic and see that it is a more apt description of smokers than non-smokers. :rolleyes:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    im almost pleased at the current poll results.

    2/3 support is slightly low but acceptable.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by technik)
    im almost pleased at the current poll results.

    2/3 support is slightly low but acceptable.
    But when you consider that there are more smokers in the 16-24 age group than any other age group, the percentage in favour of a total ban is fantastically high!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I'm all for the ban.
    And wanting fresh air isn't 'hedonistic'.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Brown Eyed Girl)
    sorry to but in at that but its not always the owners. company owned pubs have to follow company guidlines.
    Its still a company, it still isnt the state.

    smoker have as much rights as non smokers to.
    Indeed. Very little on someone elses private property.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)

    i) Smokers arent dictating anything. The bar manager decides what goes on in his bar and whether smoking is permitted.

    Yes, I am aware of this, but it is the smokers who are actually smoking.

    ii) Thats his right to choose, not yours and not the smokers.

    And I don't agree that they should have the right to choose when it is going to so adversely affect others.

    iii) You are willing to remove his rights and the rights of others to make an adult choice because of your own tastes.

    Yes, because I don't think they should have the choice when it is going to so adversely affect others.

    iv) you show no concern for free enterprise and market economics and state interference into either.

    Massive genralisation.
    How can it be a massive generalisation when points i) through iii) demonstrate your support for state interference into free enterprise and private property?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yawn)
    Here's three for you for starters - all on just one post of yours #145

    "And don't do what yawn does. 'I am not a communist!' 'What rubbish'. 'I just believe that the state should have control over all private property'. "
    I challenge you now to locate my posts where I have uttered those words. :rolleyes:
    I didnt quote you, so id appreciate it if you didnt misrepresent what I posted.

    Vienna, you really are making a pig's ear out of your attempts to argue this thread - you usually have good points to make on all your other contributions. Not only the majority of people on this forum who have voted in this particular poll think that nothing less than a total ban on smoking in public places is necessary for the well-being of those who choose not to smoke, but this majority is illustrated by all polls, not only in England, but in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Why don't you just accept defeat on this point and go argue about something you might be able to influence on a different thread? :cool:
    What a thought provoking analysis.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I think that 90% of smokers want to quit, is that right?

    Smoking is very anti-social, and on many occasions has put me off from going to the pub, because i've showered or put clean clothes on, and don't want to stink...
    Should be banned in all indoor public places, and in outdoor ones where eating/drinking etc in involved.

    That's my rant over.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vienna)
    How can it be a massive generalisation when points i) through iii) demonstrate your support for state interference into free enterprise and private property?
    Because you are generalising from me advocating state interference in this type of free enterprise to me advocating state interference in all free enterprise.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    smoking areas in restaurants don't work anyway... the fans aren't strong enough, etc, and the smoke just drifts through the entire place

    Their food would taste all the nicer without side dishes of tar and nicotine
 
 
 
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.