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The United States of America is so awesome watch

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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Why? France/Britain/Israel easily won the war. If not for the Soviet Union, which no longer exists, and the US, which is not going to make the same mistake it did in '56, France and Britain can potentially have strong militaries. Britain had 80,000 troops stationed in Egypt alone as late as 1954.
    But there is no longer any need for such a large deployment- there is no country in the world that can challenge EU interests other than the US, which is doing a wonderful job paying for our security.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    I believe around 200/300 Eurofighters have been ordered.

    You also have to look at things in relative terms.

    Compared to the US, Europe has a small, out-of-date military- but it is still several notches above any other military force in the world.

    Do you really think that $212,000,000,000 is only spent on maintaining out of date equipment?
    Yes I do. Half of that spending is from small EU countries that don't have any military capability, and even British and French military officials admit that their militaries are rapidly becoming obsolete.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    But there is no longer any need for such a large deployment- there is no country in the world that can challenge EU interests other than the US, which is doing a wonderful job paying for our security.
    And what happens when America chooses/is forced to abandon that role and Europe is left militarily naked? Do you think a military force can be create in a few years?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    And what happens when America chooses/is forced to abandon that role and Europe is left militarily naked? Do you think a military force can be create in a few years?
    Yes.

    Europe has the technology and economic strength to create such a force.

    German re-armament before WW2 is a prime example of such a force being created in far worse conditions.
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    Does Europe have the resources to create a fully equipped modern army within a few years? Wouldn't that be devastating on your economy (not to mention effing hard to do)?
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    the last two times a european nation went to war it took the entire world to stop her !!

    it would be logical to assume that if a european nation decided to go to war again be it britain, france germany.

    thus if america was to somehow withdraw all military support from europe, you would simply see the merger of a euro defence company to rival america the same way that airbus is a rival to boeing.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Yes.

    Europe has the technology and economic strength to create such a force.

    German re-armament before WW2 is a prime example of such a force being created in far worse conditions.
    The military technology in 1930 is the not the military technology of today. It takes decades to upgrade a military right now. Why do you think China's military still have no offensive capability despite the fact that it spends at least $100 billion a year on it? Developing a single weapon usually lasts close to a decade, and perfecting that weapon and training soldiers/officers for its use takes just as long. Increasing manpower is even harder, since first you have to recruit a large amount of officers, train them, and then have them train the new soldiers. This process could take several decades. And that assumes that Europe will have the willpower to sacrifice its welfare state for the sake of its military. Experiences in WWII suggests otherwise.

    (Original post by bashment)
    the last two times a european nation went to war it took the entire world to stop her !!

    it would be logical to assume that if a european nation decided to go to war again be it britain, france germany.

    thus if america was to somehow withdraw all military support from europe, you would simply see the merger of a euro defence company to rival america the same way that airbus is a rival to boeing.
    No amount of Americanophobia will remove those countries national identities, and the combined EU military strength won't match that of Russia or Turkey if current trends continue.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The military technology in 1930 is the not the military technology of today. It takes decades to upgrade a military right now. Why do you think China's military still have no offensive capability despite the fact that it spends at least $100 billion a year on it? Developing a single weapon usually lasts close to a decade, and perfecting that weapon and training soldiers/officers for its use takes just as long. Increasing manpower is even harder, since first you have to recruit a large amount of officers, train them, and then have them train the new soldiers. This process could take several decades. And that assumes that Europe will have the willpower to sacrifice its welfare state for the sake of its military. Experiences in WWII suggests otherwise.
    You are disregarding the fact that the EU already has the neccessary expertise and technology- it simply hasn't been implemented.

    As to manpower- how did Germany increase its army from 100,000 to millions in a couple of years?

    Most European countries already have an army that is quite sufficient to defend its interests- the UK certainly does.

    Offensive action on a large scale would require extra training, regardless of the country.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    You are disregarding the fact that the EU already has the neccessary expertise and technology- it simply hasn't been implemented.

    As to manpower- how did Germany increase its army from 100,000 to millions in a couple of years?
    Conscription. The advanced weaponry of today cannot be handled by someone who received a year of military training and who was forced into joining the military against his will.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Conscription. The advanced weaponry of today cannot be handled by someone who received a year of military training and who was forced into joining the military against his will.
    Equipment is simplified during times of war.

    And a well-trained core force such a most European countries maintain is quite capable of training a larger force.

    Incidentally- if it costs the EU so much to maintain an out-dated and small force, other countries must not be even decades of EU technology considering their spending and army size.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Equipment is simplified during times of war.
    Tell that to the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    And a well-trained core force such a most European countries maintain is quite capable of training a larger force.
    Only a small portion of the military is capable of training new recruits.

    Incidentally- if it costs the EU so much to maintain an out-dated and small force, other countries must not be even decades of EU technology considering their spending and army size.
    Firstly, many countries already have a large military. More importantly, their military strength is increasing, while that of the EU is moving in the opposite direction. Please find me an expert opinion saying something to the contrary.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Firstly, many countries already have a large military. More importantly, their military strength is increasing, while that of the EU is moving in the opposite direction. Please find me an expert opinion saying something to the contrary.
    Here we go

    http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/Two...tory03-8.shtml
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Here we go

    http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/Two...tory03-8.shtml
    Military expert please. And someone talking about the long-term situation and not minor changes in the near future.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Military expert please. And someone talking about the long-term situation and not minor changes in the near future.
    Exactly what I was thinking.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Military expert please. And someone talking about the long-term situation and not minor changes in the near future.
    Expertise depends entirely on one's point of view.

    Surely you know about the EU 'super-army' and rapid reponse forces?

    The 'EU' is certainly looking to create a larger military force, even if the individual countries are not.

    That article clearly showed the 'projection' of EU military power.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Expertise depends entirely on one's point of view.

    Surely you know about the EU 'super-army' and rapid reponse forces?

    The 'EU' is certainly looking to create a larger military force, even if the individual countries are not.

    That article clearly showed the 'projection' of EU military power.
    No, it depends on having "Dr." in front of your name, and "specialist in military affairs" behind it.

    This brief review supports my position and then there's this article

    And then there are expert opinions like this one:

    If it is not possible to plunk down more euros, Washington would like to see the countries at least spend more wisely. Europe spends 60 percent of what America does, but has just a tiny fraction of America's military might, said Julianne Smith, a scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Smith said that European militaries spend a tremendous amount on bureaucracy and personnel and very little on material, leaving them with minimal war-fighting capabilities.

    "You just can't imagine the bureaucracy that surrounds their militaries. ... It's just incredible. You see 10 people doing the job one person would be doing here," Smith said.
    And this one:

    Out of the 1.4 million soldiers under arms, the 18 non-U.S. [NATO allies with militaries] have 55,000 deployed on multinational operations ... yet they feel overstretched. ... We must generate more usable soldiers and have the political will to deploy more of them in multinational operations," former NATO Secretary General George Robertson said in an October 2003 speech.
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    America is a good country to visit. I recently went to Atlanta (dirty south?)

    The people there were friendly as heck! They were even more friendly than northerners (as opposed to rude southeners in the UK...[im a londoner myself])

    Crunk music was the the 'in' thing, and thw whole city was a good experience....not to mention how much the accent turned me on!! :P
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    No, it depends on having "Dr." in front of your name, and "specialist in military affairs" behind it.

    This brief review supports my position and then there's this article

    And then there are expert opinions like this one:

    And this one:
    You stated that European forces were weakening, not strengthening, yet this seems to reject your claim;

    'However, there has been modest movement in these directions. Force restructuring is happening, including in Germany, where a rapid reaction force is being created. France has abandoned conscription, and Italy is now considering it. Multinational military commands and units now exist. And Britain, which has opposed an EU defense role in the past, now supports one.'

    My article also demonstrated European willingness to project its power further- another weakness you suggested.

    I have never suggested that European military strength was equal to that of the US- but I have said that it is equal to any other military force.

    You have yet to prove otherwise.
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    oh yeh the USA are great, bombing random countries is so awesome...George Bush is the best...hmmmm
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Here we go

    http://www.garnertedarmstrong.ws/Two...tory03-8.shtml
    EU's military is a joke and so its economy. The members have completely different kinds of economies and still they want to unite and become US of Europe. How stupid is that.As someone mentioned before, nowadays it takes decades to create a strong military. Thats why China's military is a joke,compared to the US one, despite its huge military spendings.
 
 
 
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