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    Why are people under the impression that an internet forum should grant them the right to freedom of speech?
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    (Original post by coldfish)
    Why are people under the impression that an internet forum should grant them the right to freedom of speech?
    We should have freedom of speech inside and outside an internet forum.
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    I'd beg to differ. This board is owned by someone who can manage it in any way they want. For example, when I am a guest in someone's house I will not go about 'exercising my right to free speech' lest they exercise their right to forcibly eject me.
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    (Original post by John82)
    I got a neg rep for making a joke a while back. It was probably a really bad joke:



    To which I said:



    Still, it made me laugh! :rolleyes:
    Lol that's quite funny actually! Shouldn't have got neg rep for that?
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    (Original post by LibertineNorth)
    I'd beg to differ. This board is owned by someone who can manage it in any way they want. For example, when I am a guest in someone's house I will not go about 'exercising my right to free speech' lest they exercise their right to forcibly eject me.
    Of course they can manage it as they wish, but that right does not make it moral.
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    What's so bad about being offensive?

    It's allowing one's own feelings to be indluged despite causing unhappiness to another - therefore it's self-centred.

    It illustrates that the one being offensive can't articulate themselves in a way that gets their point of view across without causing offence.

    It suggests that the person's 'up-bringing' has been lacking regarding courtesy to, and consideration for, others. :rolleyes:
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    Objectivism - I feel your initial comment should not have been classed as offensive in the slightest and it certainly did not deserve to get negative feedback. It was not a specific attack on somebody.

    It is weak people who take the easy way out by giving negative feedback anonymously. What is really offensive in these forums is the inability for someone to have free speech without it being negative repped, deleted, or harrassed for their own views.

    I hope certain people do not make you think you should not have the right to free speech, NEVER let anyone stop you saying what you feel, it is a positive characteristic which we both have, although is always met with wrongly places caution.
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    What are you whining about now? It's perfectly fine for you to say offensive things to and about people but if others take objection to it you're going to have a hissy fit? If your contribution to this forum is to offend people, those offended people can neg rep you to illustrate to others that your contribution is a negative one. Get over it.

    If you're offended by the offensive tone of this post, neg rep me. It's the price I pay for exercising my freedom to call you a whining, self-centred, closed-minded moron. If there's nothing wrong with being offensive, be offensive, but why is there something wrong with being offended?

    Not only are you being ridiculous but your original comment was worthless. Even if not offended it was a complete waste of the time of those reading it - in a topic marked debate and discussion the proposition a post makes should have the potential to be discussed. Saying you didn't like the Quran and threw it in the bin isn't simply offensive to Muslims, it's worthless.
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    What exactly is the point in being offensive?
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    What are you whining about now? It's perfectly fine for you to say offensive things to and about people but if others take objection to it you're going to have a hissy fit? If your contribution to this forum is to offend people, those offended people can neg rep you to illustrate to others that your contribution is a negative one. Get over it.

    You obviously have not read the whole read, this is not about neg repping, thats just an example. It's about being punished for holding a view. For example why have someone arrested for making a racist comment? Why not argue with them instead?

    If you're offended by the offensive tone of this post, neg rep me. It's the price I pay for exercising my freedom to call you a whining, self-centred, closed-minded moron.
    Your using the same argument to defend yourself, but when i use this argument i'm wrong. Talk about being contradictory!!


    Not only are you being ridiculous but your original comment was worthless.

    So should people be punished for saying things what you think are worthless?


    Even if not offended it was a complete waste of the time of those reading it - in a topic marked debate and discussion the proposition a post makes should have the potential to be discussed.
    A waste of time in your opinion. Have you still not seen that people have different views? Your also avoiding the issue at hand. Its not whether that comment is right or wrong but whether someone should be punished for such a comment. Thus take some of your own advice and keep to the topic.


    Saying you didn't like the Quran and threw it in the bin isn't simply offensive to Muslims, it's worthless.
    So? Whats your point? Worthless = shouldn't be allowed to say it? Should be punished for it? Again you've missed the point of the thread. Thus your comments are worthless.
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    (Original post by Prad)
    What exactly is the point in being offensive?

    Its not a question of deliberately being offensive but saying what you believe, even though it offends others.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Its not a question of deliberately being offensive but saying what you believe, even though it offends others.
    Most people have a belief that will likely offend someone, somewhere. The trick would be to apoligise with laying the fault on yourself. "I'm sorry you feel that way" would be a good example.
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    (Original post by Prad)
    Most people have a belief that will likely offend someone, somewhere. The trick would be to apoligise with laying the fault on yourself. "I'm sorry you feel that way" would be a good example.

    But i'm not sorry. I can't be held responsible for their feelings therefore i have no reason to apologise, to do so would be to lie to myself which i am not prepared to do.
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    If they're worthless how were you able to type so much in response to them? And why did you? I was making the exact same argument in inviting you to neg rep me as I was in the preceding paragraph - that just as you're not prevented from being offensive, to an extent, others aren't prevented from publicly expressing their offense (and as such dissatisfaction with what you've said) through neg repping you.

    If your comments on the Quran aren't at issue, let's put them aside. This now appears to be a debate about freedom of speech within the context of this forum. Fine. You are unhappy that you are unable to post some things that others find offensive? I assume this is the case, although the example you cited in your first post was of you being able to say something but another expressing dissatisfaction at that.

    Now, in general life, the liberal doctrine holds dear the tenet of freedom of speech. Good, good. But in the context of this forum we are here to debate and discuss things. The forum is privately owned, run by donations from its users and here not to be a soapbox for extremists but for people to enjoy themselves discussing and debating and benefit from doing so. It aims to provide something to those who visit it so that they will continue to do so. The management as such reserves the right to stop us using the forum to offend and insult others because no one wants to come to a forum where they'll be offended and insulted. Just as a private company would fire an employee who wrote something deeply offensive on the front of the Head Office building, these forums can and do take down "contributions" that are offensive, insulting, worthless and unrelentingly ignorant.

    Finally, deviating from the topic, I really think you need to learn the correct use of "your" and "you're" respectively. "You're" is a contraction of "you are" - so where you're (see?) saying that someone else is doing something, "you're" is appropriate. "Your" is the possessive, as in "your hat", "your bag" or "your mother". I hope you're cool with that. If not, it is of course your prerogative to neg rep me.
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    f they're worthless how were you able to type so much in response to them? And why did you?
    To show how wrong you are.


    I was making the exact same argument in inviting you to neg rep me as I was in the preceding paragraph - that just as you're not prevented from being offensive, to an extent, others aren't prevented from publicly expressing their offense (and as such dissatisfaction with what you've said) through neg repping you.

    If your comments on the Quran aren't at issue, let's put them aside. This now appears to be a debate about freedom of speech within the context of this forum. Fine. You are unhappy that you are unable to post some things that others find offensive? I assume this is the case, although the example you cited in your first post was of you being able to say something but another expressing dissatisfaction at that.

    Now, in general life, the liberal doctrine holds dear the tenet of freedom of speech. Good, good. But in the context of this forum we are here to debate and discuss things. The forum is privately owned, run by donations from its users and here not to be a soapbox for extremists but for people to enjoy themselves discussing and debating and benefit from doing so. It aims to provide something to those who visit it so that they will continue to do so. The management as such reserves the right to stop us using the forum to offend and insult others because no one wants to come to a forum where they'll be offended and insulted. Just as a private company would fire an employee who wrote something deeply offensive on the front of the Head Office building, these forums can and do take down "contributions" that are offensive, insulting, worthless and unrelentingly ignorant.
    I'm not disputing that. You are still not getting the point. I was not punsihed by the forum, rather someone read a comment, did not like it and neg repped me. Though they may have been offended, was it right to give a neg rep? I'm not saying they should not be allowed to do so - notice the distinction. Is it right to punish because one's feelings are hurt?



    Finally, deviating from the topic, I really think you need to learn the correct use of "your" and "you're" respectively. "You're" is a contraction of "you are" - so where you're (see?) saying that someone else is doing something, "you're" is appropriate. "Your" is the possessive, as in "your hat", "your bag" or "your mother". I hope you're cool with that. If not, it is of course your prerogative to neg rep me.

    Its called lazy typing. I trust you have the sufficeint sense to understand. If not, it's your problem.
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    Was it right for someone to neg rep you if they're offended? Sure, why not? One person doesn't think you're making a good contribution to this forum. They show that through their neg rep. It's easy to disagree with the Quran without offending people. I disagree with it. Surely you're in favour of their freedom of expression?

    As for showing how wrong I am, that is precisely my point. You can show how wrong I am because I posited something and supported it with reasons - as such, it was meaningful. Do you believe you would have been negative repped if you'd said "I read the Quran and was disgusted by these comments "la la la" and "ddum dee dum" and so I threw it away"? Or would that have been a fairly positive contribution to a discussion of the Quran, with which people could have debated, rather than simply an assertion that an entire religious book is disgusting and that you threw it away?

    People will give negative rep where they consider something to have been detrimental to a topic of discussion. If you'd like to avoid people considering your contributions negative, avoid offending people. In conversation we avoid insulting the people we're talking to because we know they'll walk away, or punch us, or like us less, if we care. If we don't, we offend them, but we still do not expect them not to respond.
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    Was it right for someone to neg rep you if they're offended? Sure, why not?
    Because it does not attack, say, the lack of argument, rather the comment merely said 'offensive' not 'not providing enough evidence' or 'stats are wrong' etc.

    One person doesn't think you're making a good contribution to this forum.
    But the fact that it is an opinion makes it a good contribution since is through conflict that issues progress as Mill advocates.


    They show that through their neg rep. It's easy to disagree with the Quran without offending people. I disagree with it. Surely you're in favour of their freedom of expression?

    Of course they CAN do it, but my question is and always has been SHOULD they do it?

    As for showing how wrong I am, that is precisely my point. You can show how wrong I am because I posited something and supported it with reasons - as such, it was meaningful. Do you believe you would have been negative repped if you'd said "I read the Quran and was disgusted by these comments "la la la" and "ddum dee dum" and so I threw it away"?
    But in the many posts in that thread i did provide reasons but i was still neg repped.


    People will give negative rep where they consider something to have been detrimental to a topic of discussion. If you'd like to avoid people considering your contributions negative, avoid offending people.

    You are still not getting my point. I'm not really bothered about neg repped, rather the reasons for it.
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    No, I get your point. Your point is people shouldn't neg rep simply because they're offended. But then should people pos rep simply because they're complimented? Maybe and maybe not. But if someone doesn't like what you've said, they're going to neg rep you and if they like what you've said they'll pos rep you. I wouldn't have neg repped you if I were religious and you'd insulted my religion. But someone decided to, which they wouldn't have if you hadn't offended them.

    No, there's nothing wrong with offending people. But there's also nothing wrong with expressing dissatisfaction when offended, through neg rep or whatever other means suits the medium.
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    No, I get your point. Your point is people shouldn't neg rep simply because they're offended. But then should people pos rep simply because they're complimented? Maybe and maybe not. But if someone doesn't like what you've said, they're going to neg rep you and if they like what you've said they'll pos rep you.
    True, but that dosen't realy answer the question. Just because it happens doesen't make it right.



    No, there's nothing wrong with offending people.

    Good

    But there's also nothing wrong with expressing dissatisfaction when offended, through neg rep or whatever other means suits the medium.
    In terms of freedom of expression your right. But in terms of being rational and moral this is wrong. Just because one has the right does not mean one should use it.
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    (Original post by Tomorrow2Day)
    What are you whining about now? It's perfectly fine for you to say offensive things to and about people but if others take objection to it you're going to have a hissy fit? If your contribution to this forum is to offend people, those offended people can neg rep you to illustrate to others that your contribution is a negative one. Get over it.

    If you're offended by the offensive tone of this post, neg rep me. It's the price I pay for exercising my freedom to call you a whining, self-centred, closed-minded moron. If there's nothing wrong with being offensive, be offensive, but why is there something wrong with being offended?

    My comments are not meant to be offensive, if people decide to take them that way then that is not the intention. My comments are not specifically aimed at individual users, as yours are. My comments are merely an expression of my beliefs and if people decide to neg rep me for putting across my thoughts then so be it. Neg repping is just a cowards way out to make them feel better, but neg repping is not the point of this post.

    These days people are too scared to say how they feel and end up going along with the flow, so as not to upset anyone. People then tag onto this and become 'upset' at the merest of things, to gain control or at least attempt to, and most people bow to this and let them win. This means one opinion is thought to be correct, and people generally agree to keep everyone happy. I am not one of those people, I say what I feel, I have strong beliefs and values and I'm not afraid to express these opinions. I will not let people tell me how to feel, and I will say what I think in situations.

    I don't believe I am a 'closed-minded moron' I believe that people who don't give others the chance to express themselves are. These people miss out on the opportunities to learn and debate against people, and therefore expanding their views. I pity this ill-informed and uneducated people.
 
 
 

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