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Bush offers to remove agricultural subsidies watch

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    good idea.

    but use the money to eliminate poverty in the USA and europe. might even get a decent public transport system out of the spare change here too.
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    (Original post by technik)
    good idea.

    but use the money to eliminate poverty in the USA and europe. might even get a decent public transport system out of the spare change here too.
    Didn't you know that it was the duty of each leader to care about all countries but his own?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Didn't you know that it was the duty of each leader to care about all countries but his own?
    i noticed.

    but then you cant care about your own country, because then some hippy comes along and calls you a xenophobe or other spurious title
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    (Original post by technik)
    i noticed.

    but then you cant care about your own country, because then some hippy comes along and calls you a xenophobe or other spurious title
    I'm sure you can get Mugabe and Qadaffi to care for your country instead.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I'm sure you can get Mugabe and Qadaffi to care for your country instead.
    dont be silly. they are africans...

    they need our patronising and condescending help and assistance in every detail, for we are the "white people" and we know best. we dont expect anything useful from them...
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    (Original post by technik)
    i noticed.

    but then you cant care about your own country, because then some hippy comes along and calls you a xenophobe or other spurious title
    do you realise quite how bigotted that makes you sound?

    of course people can (and in some respects should) care about the country they livein/ are from. but first and foremost we should care about people....regardless of their nationality if people are suffering and we can do even a very little to help we definatly should. to hide begin the national pride card or the "it isnt our problem" card is dispiccable
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    (Original post by peacenik)
    do you realise quite how bigotted that makes you sound?

    of course people can (and in some respects should) care about the country they livein/ are from. but first and foremost we should care about people....regardless of their nationality if people are suffering and we can do even a very little to help we definatly should. to hide begin the national pride card or the "it isnt our problem" card is dispiccable
    Actually, he was stating the implied argument of those who are obsessed with giving more aid to Africa.

    So tell me, while your money is being spend on all countries but your own, whose money will be spent on improving your transport systems, hospitals, and schools?
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    (Original post by peacenik)
    do you realise quite how bigotted that makes you sound?

    of course people can (and in some respects should) care about the country they livein/ are from. but first and foremost we should care about people....regardless of their nationality if people are suffering and we can do even a very little to help we definatly should. to hide begin the national pride card or the "it isnt our problem" card is dispiccable
    a governments primary responsibility is to its OWN PEOPLE, and theres always room for improvement even in the "rich west".

    of course, pour money down the proverbial drain that is africa if you wish. in another 20 years Bobby G will be back on his soapbox crying about how we've failed africa again. frankly im getting tired of his and his cronies crap. africa, frankly, isnt our responsibility. its the responsibility of africans. if they cant sort it out then bad luck. i find it almost sickening seeing the "monday morning humanists" going to some concert to make themselves feel good about having helped the poor ethiopians. however, come saturday they wont be anywhere to be seen.
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    None really, but I suppose celebrities.

    Dropping interest on the debt (since the loans themslves have already been paid back) is a good idea. But how can we be sure that it won't come from aid budgets? Are they going to force African leaders to sell off their public services to receive aid? Are we going to stop selling 1 bn pounds worth of arms to Africa every year?..
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    (Original post by technik)
    a governments primary responsibility is to its OWN PEOPLE, and theres always room for improvement even in the "rich west".
    In a democracy is the primary responsibility not to please as many of its own people, whether that be foreign aid of transport spending?
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    (Original post by kizdesai)
    In a democracy is the primary responsibility not to please as many of its own people, whether that be foreign aid of transport spending?
    its not a popularity contest.

    its about doing whats right for the british people in the case of a british government. i just fail to see how perpetually throwing billions at africa will do anything useful. its been happening for decades and africa doesnt seem to be going anywhere does it? i'd suggest that you could pour the entire GDP of the G8 into africa and in 50 years it'll still be in the same sorry state.

    in reality, while most people are probably touched by the plight of africa, i doubt more than a relative handful will delve into their bank accounts and make donations, or will get involved in charities and travel out themselves to try and effect a change. rather, more people will get a damn sight more pissed off and care more when theres a jam on the motorway or their train is late, or their granny gets mugged in her own home.
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    My point was just that democracy is a good model of giving the people what they want, I think most don't wan't what you do.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Source

    Bush has also offered to double aid to Africa

    Who do you think is doing more to fight poverty in Africa, the US, the EU, or celebrities who attempt to bring attention to the problem?
    The best just got better.
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    To be honest, its probably the US and the UK that are doing the most about Africa. The rest of the EU is too busy quarreling among themselves to care, and the celebs won't actually achieve much except to allow more dictators to buy themselves another fleet of Mercedes cars. The US is trying to actually improve Africa rather than just chuck money at it, by ending corruption and so-forth. But I don't see why the government should be giving a pissload of money to the place, afterall their first responsibility is to the people of their nation and to see that they have a better life. The only aid to Africa should be aid to promote a market economy there and to help countries stand on their own two feet, not just throwing money at it.
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    Id be interested to hear from the 5 people that claim the EU is doing the most for Africa.
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    (Original post by technik)
    a governments primary responsibility is to its OWN PEOPLE, and theres always room for improvement even in the "rich west".

    of course, pour money down the proverbial drain that is africa if you wish. in another 20 years Bobby G will be back on his soapbox crying about how we've failed africa again. frankly im getting tired of his and his cronies crap. africa, frankly, isnt our responsibility. its the responsibility of africans. if they cant sort it out then bad luck. i find it almost sickening seeing the "monday morning humanists" going to some concert to make themselves feel good about having helped the poor ethiopians. however, come saturday they wont be anywhere to be seen.
    thats very selfish of you. You havent even been to Africa and you dont even realise how horrible to live there and yet you are being selfish and only care about your own country. I understand that this country needs to sort out its own problems, but the problems here are not that severe. People in this country dont die due to the lack of food. There is a great number of opportunities even for poor people in developed countries.
    Not every African is responsible for the poverty. They cant change anything. Only fat cats (politicians) can do, but they just make everything worse.
    You can neg rep or do anything you life, but I always seem to find your posts about aids very selfish. You only say that every country has to look after itself and shouldnt care about anyone.
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    thats very selfish of you. You havent even been to Africa and you dont even realise how horrible to live there and yet you are being selfish and only care about your own country. I understand that this country needs to sort out its own problems, but the problems here are not that severe. People in this country dont die due to the lack of food. There is a great number of opportunities even for poor people in developed countries.
    Not every African is responsible for the poverty. They cant change anything. Only fat cats (politicians) can do, but they just make everything worse.
    You can neg rep or do anything you life, but I always seem to find your posts about aids very selfish. You only say that every country has to look after itself and shouldnt care about anyone.
    then call me selfish. see if i care.

    i dont see anyone ever saying how we need to better our own country. if you keep worrying about everyone else you neglect your own and before you know it its went to **** around your feet.

    as an aside...are you from the african continent? do you live there? have you ever been there? interesting that you try to comment on how i dont know what its like, but then you make a sweeping statement about how great it is here in this country. how would you know?

    i believe all the effort and money would be better off spent here. i can think of a million uses. if you disagree then fine. i hope you feel really selfish when you climb into your warm bed tonight. yea right, im sure you wont...
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    lol the US doing more to fight poverty...haha..CLASSIC
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    lol the US doing more to fight poverty...haha..CLASSIC
    I believe the facts speak for themselves.
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    (Original post by technik)
    a governments primary responsibility is to its OWN PEOPLE, and theres always room for improvement even in the "rich west".

    of course, pour money down the proverbial drain that is africa if you wish. in another 20 years Bobby G will be back on his soapbox crying about how we've failed africa again. frankly im getting tired of his and his cronies crap. africa, frankly, isnt our responsibility. its the responsibility of africans. if they cant sort it out then bad luck. i find it almost sickening seeing the "monday morning humanists" going to some concert to make themselves feel good about having helped the poor ethiopians. however, come saturday they wont be anywhere to be seen.
    I'm not saying "pouring money" into Africa should happen. It can when done in the way it is currently almost certainly cause more problems than it does good. Its very right that the government should try to build the best possible Britain - I dont dispute that. And I also dont necessarily agree with the concerts - although they do raise awareness.

    However the truth is the western world is in part to blame for the position many african countries find themselves in. Unfair trade rules, crippling debts and aid that when it is given is limited and tied to certain things, eg only to be used on western produced products.......these are all things we can and very much should do something about.

    Much of the poverty in africa is the result of these things but also due to conflict. So we and all other countries need to back and push the UN into taking action when it is needed. For example it was very slow in acting over Sudan.

    Ultimatly poverty can only be fully dealt with by the Africans themselves but we have to help tham get to a position where they can do that. If that means stabilising the countries militarily and economically while getting rid of the unfair bias against them suceeding then thats what we need to do.

    Technik, clearly your attitude that "if they cannot sort it out, bad luck" will mean you'll disagree but at least recognise the problem is at least in part due to western countries.


    Also can I say that we are all in danger of gross generalisations. Africa is a continent not a country and the situations vary greatly.

    Also what about world poverty and suffering....?
 
 
 

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