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Bush offers to remove agricultural subsidies watch

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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I believe the facts speak for themselves.
    Do you have any sources for your claims about the US? Maybe it was on another thread- but I'm perhaps a bit behind the debate.

    As far as I know, the EU and US have a similar total GDP.

    The EU gives $19 billion to Africa.

    The US gives $4/5 billion.

    If you include business aid/private charity etc. which these figures have been criticised for- the US is still only middling as a charitable nation (percentage wise).
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    (Original post by technik)
    then call me selfish. see if i care.

    i dont see anyone ever saying how we need to better our own country. if you keep worrying about everyone else you neglect your own and before you know it its went to **** around your feet.
    as an aside...are you from the african continent? do you live there? have you ever been there? interesting that you try to comment on how i dont know what its like, but then you make a sweeping statement about how great it is here in this country. how would you know?

    i believe all the effort and money would be better off spent here. i can think of a million uses. if you disagree then fine. i hope you feel really selfish when you climb into your warm bed tonight. yea right, im sure you wont...
    yes, I ve been to Africa and seen the poor lives of people. I ve also been to other poor countries. The aids just help these poor people. It is the only hope for them. I dont want to sound harsh, but you seem to me very selfish. You only care about your own good. The world isnt that simple. Helping Africa to develop will benefit greatly UK economy and the world economy. There will be more trade and it will be easier to extract more minerals in Africa without being afraid of horrible dictatorship. We live on one planet, we are single race and we cant just ignore other parts of the world. UK is also responsible for Africa's poverty. If it wasnt for UK's colonization and slavery, Africa would be completely different.
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    I find it very interesting that Bush has made this offer and one has to wonder if it is motivated in any part by a wish to repay Blair for his support over Iraq. This move by the USA adds greatly to the pressure on the EU/France to drop the ridiculous subsidies currently in place.
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    I saw today the conversation between Trevor Mcdonald(not sure about his name,lol) and Bush. Either Bush is stupid and cant think of better answer or he is just a liar. lol.
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    I saw today the conversation between Trevor Mcdonald(not sure about his name,lol) and Bush. Either Bush is stupid and cant think of better answer or he is just a liar. lol.
    I thought he answered quite well and im no fan of his oratory skills.
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    Whats the point of this poll anyway. All our yank friends here will vote for US and we all know how many americans there are in this forum nowadays. It makes you wonder if this is actually a British forum...
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    the people of their nation and to see that they have a better life.
    A better life? How can they have a better life? If we all lived like Americans, we'd need an extra 4 planets to keep us going!
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    (Original post by peacenik)
    I'm not saying "pouring money" into Africa should happen. It can when done in the way it is currently almost certainly cause more problems than it does good. Its very right that the government should try to build the best possible Britain - I dont dispute that. And I also dont necessarily agree with the concerts - although they do raise awareness.

    However the truth is the western world is in part to blame for the position many african countries find themselves in. Unfair trade rules, crippling debts and aid that when it is given is limited and tied to certain things, eg only to be used on western produced products.......these are all things we can and very much should do something about.

    Much of the poverty in africa is the result of these things but also due to conflict. So we and all other countries need to back and push the UN into taking action when it is needed. For example it was very slow in acting over Sudan.

    Ultimatly poverty can only be fully dealt with by the Africans themselves but we have to help tham get to a position where they can do that. If that means stabilising the countries militarily and economically while getting rid of the unfair bias against them suceeding then thats what we need to do.

    Technik, clearly your attitude that "if they cannot sort it out, bad luck" will mean you'll disagree but at least recognise the problem is at least in part due to western countries.


    Also can I say that we are all in danger of gross generalisations. Africa is a continent not a country and the situations vary greatly.

    Also what about world poverty and suffering....?
    total cack. before they all wanted independence they were generally stable and clearly had a better chance of getting somewhere. now half of them are little more than destroyed war zones. count how many countries erupted into civil war within a few years of the colonial powers leaving whether it be old british, french or portugese countries. the only success story was SA and that was due to apartheid. even during sanctions they managed to create an economy thats as good as most of the lower end of euro zone nations through sound management and planning and by controlling the populations.

    most of their current predicament is their own fault. easy to blame the big bad imperial set ups of old but thats frankly dodging the reality which is 30 or 40 years of ineptitude on their own bat, and since then who's been trying to help them out. why...that'll be the "rich countries".
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Whats the point of this poll anyway. All our yank friends here will vote for US and we all know how many americans there are in this forum nowadays. It makes you wonder if this is actually a British forum...
    Its a student forum, and your only whining because your losing.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    A better life? How can they have a better life? If we all lived like Americans, we'd need an extra 4 planets to keep us going!
    lol.with developments in technology, we will no longer need 4 planets. Robots will work for us in primary and secondary industries, whereas we will work in service industries.lol
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    Celebrities aren't doing ****. They're encouraging the USA/Europe to do something through projects like Live 8, which ultimately benefits them a lot as their record sales go up, and they plug their merchandise.
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    yes, I ve been to Africa and seen the poor lives of people. I ve also been to other poor countries. The aids just help these poor people. It is the only hope for them. I dont want to sound harsh, but you seem to me very selfish. You only care about your own good. The world isnt that simple. Helping Africa to develop will benefit greatly UK economy and the world economy. There will be more trade and it will be easier to extract more minerals in Africa without being afraid of horrible dictatorship. We live on one planet, we are single race and we cant just ignore other parts of the world. UK is also responsible for Africa's poverty. If it wasnt for UK's colonization and slavery, Africa would be completely different.
    thats it exactly. a lot of african nations are sitting on preverbial goldmines (pardon the pun). if they just got their ass in gear they'd improve their lot, themselves. if they arent capable of doing it then its not up to us to hold them by the hand continually bailing out dodgy leaders and warlords.
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    Wow, I'm quite impressed. That's quite a proposal! Shouldn't this direct the world's gaze towards Chirac and co.? If they don't take advantage of this opportunity, it should be an absolute scandal, as it would be far worse than any 'cynicism' which Bush has shown in the past over Aid, cynicism which always grabs headlines.
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    lol.with developments in technology, we will no longer need 4 planets. Robots will work for us in primary and secondary industries, whereas we will work in service industries.lol
    Cool! And we can pay disabled African kids 10p a day to make the robots! That'll give the US public a better life and stimulate African growth!
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Cool! And we can pay disabled African kids 10p a day to make the robots! That'll give the US public a better life and stimulate African growth!
    Hey, you show me a disabled african (the poor bit of africa) kid who will say no to 10p a day.

    Anyway, making robots is a secondary industry so in that world, the robots would make themselves.
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    (Original post by Trier)
    Do you have any sources for your claims about the US? Maybe it was on another thread- but I'm perhaps a bit behind the debate.

    As far as I know, the EU and US have a similar total GDP.

    The EU gives $19 billion to Africa.

    The US gives $4/5 billion.

    If you include business aid/private charity etc. which these figures have been criticised for- the US is still only middling as a charitable nation (percentage wise).
    I was referring mainly to the offer to scrap agricultural subsidies. The article is on the first page of this thread.
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    (Original post by silent p......?)
    Its a student forum, and your only whining because your losing.
    I didn't know this was a competition....whats does the winner get?
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    (Original post by peacenik)
    do you realise quite how bigotted that makes you sound?

    of course people can (and in some respects should) care about the country they livein/ are from. but first and foremost we should care about people....regardless of their nationality if people are suffering and we can do even a very little to help we definatly should. to hide begin the national pride card or the "it isnt our problem" card is dispiccable
    Exactly, may I direct you to this point by LC01...:

    (Original post by LC01)
    All we should do is look out for our own country, stop the immgrant flood, give our pensioners what they deaserve, leave the EU, kick out the asylum seekers and stick our fingers up at the rest of the world. .
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Exactly, may I direct you to this point by LC01...:
    So just because he says something it must be wrong? BNP also believe in arresting criminals.. should we therefore stop doing it?
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    (Original post by technik)
    total cack. before they all wanted independence they were generally stable and clearly had a better chance of getting somewhere. now half of them are little more than destroyed war zones. count how many countries erupted into civil war within a few years of the colonial powers leaving whether it be old british, french or portugese countries. the only success story was SA and that was due to apartheid. even during sanctions they managed to create an economy thats as good as most of the lower end of euro zone nations through sound management and planning and by controlling the populations.

    most of their current predicament is their own fault. easy to blame the big bad imperial set ups of old but thats frankly dodging the reality which is 30 or 40 years of ineptitude on their own bat, and since then who's been trying to help them out. why...that'll be the "rich countries".
    you continue to fail to acknowledge that the causes of poverty are as varied as the effects of it. Do you really believe the positions african countries find themselves in is nothing to do with unfair trade which ensures that when the try to stand on their own to feet they are almost certain to fail.

    your seeming to suggest that if the parts of africa that were colonised by britain had remained under our control there would be no problems?! thats complete bullsh*t. apart from the fact colonisation is a dispiccable practice it has no place in the modern world and is so outdated.
 
 
 

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