The Student Room Group

ITN #4 - Concerns over EU doctors' English

Has anyone else had bad experiences trying to talk to doctors (whether british, european, indian or wherever) who have communication skills?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4642003.stm


Concerns over EU doctors' English

Patients' lives are being put at risk because thousands of doctors working in the UK may not have sufficient English language skills, doctors warn.
All medics from outside Europe are tested by the General Medical Council before being allowed to work, but those from within Europe are exempted.

Medical organisations say it is essential that all doctors can communicate effectively with patients.

The government said NHS trusts should ensure staff had adequate English.

There are more than 230,000 doctors registered with the GMC, of which 162,000 are UK nationals, 12,000 from the European Economic Area - the EU countries plus Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein - and 60,000 from the rest of the world.

Dr Surendra Kumar is president of the British International Doctors Association and a former member of the GMC's registration committee, which determines the requirements doctors need to fulfil to show they are fit to practise.

She said: "Quite often doctors from outside Europe have better language skills than those from within Europe because they may have trained in English.

"But the problem is that we cannot test those from Europe.

"It was immensely frustrating when I was on the registration committee.

"Patients lives are being put at risk because some doctors just do not have good enough communication skills, and since they are not tested it only becomes apparent when they are dealing with patients."

Dr Edwin Borman, chairman of the BMA's international committee added: "It's essential that all doctors, whether from Europe or outside Europe, can communicate effectively, both with patients and colleagues.

"We know that hasn't always happened under the present system."

'Proficient'

He added: "Currently, NHS trusts have responsibility for ensuring the doctors they employ are proficient in English, but the BMA believes the GMC should also have the power to test doctors' language skills."

A spokeswoman for the GMC agreed it was an issue and that it would like to take on the responsibility.

However, she added: "We want to be able to assure patients that all doctors on the medical register are able to communicate effectively in English."

The Department of Health pointed out that it was up to NHS trusts not to employ doctors with insufficient English skills.

She added the department's code of practice recommended that foreign doctors demonstrate a level of English language proficiency "consistent with safe and skilled communication with patients, clients, carers and colleagues".


-Note this ISN'T a thread for people to just slam all foreign born doctors as being incompetent!
Reply 1
Umm consultants at the royal berks are indian (some) and sometime their english is a little incoherant.
Reply 2
Yes, it's ridiculous that doctors inside the EU but not fully competent in english have no proficiency test and have to rely on trust regulations. I've had a few experiences where I couldn't understand what the heck they were saying.
Reply 3
Miles
Yes, it's ridiculous that doctors inside the EU but not fully competent in english have no proficiency test and have to rely on trust regulations. I've had a few experiences where I couldn't understand what the heck they were saying.


Di you complain Miles? I would have done, i dont want a bloody doctor talking about something i dont understand. Of course you dont want to give the docs the wrong impression but come on.
Markus
Di you complain Miles? I would have done, i dont want a bloody doctor talking about something i dont understand. Of course you dont want to give the docs the wrong impression but come on.

i would kick up a stick certainly. its dangerous, after all if they can't communicate with patients they will also struggle with their colleagues, and medicine really is an ultra team effort - communication critical.
Reply 5
Markus
Di you complain Miles? I would have done, i dont want a bloody doctor talking about something i dont understand. Of course you dont want to give the docs the wrong impression but come on.


Complain? lol, Unless they're raping a patient or dropping a watch in a surgical cavity, I'm not saying anything. I don't want my class position to suffer :eek: :wink:
Reply 6
sometimes a drop in class is worth it :wink:
Reply 7
Miles
Complain? lol, Unless they're raping a patient or dropping a watch in a surgical cavity, I'm not saying anything. I don't want my class position to suffer :eek: :wink:

If i'm ever ill... i think i'd prefer to go near someone i didn't really understand than someone who cares more about his class of degree than public welfare :p:
In all honesty, and in my experience. The English language skills of Dr/nurses trained in India/Pak/SRL is far superior to those trained in the EU. English is a national language in both states, and the language of instruction in medical schools.

Plus, some of the worlds finest medical colleges, such as the world famous Aga Khan medical college ect are based there.

East European nurses are hot. :smile:
Reply 9
legbreakgoogly
In all honesty, and in my experience. The English language skills of Dr/nurses trained in India/Pak/SRL is far superior to those trained in the EU. English is a national language in both states, and the language of instruction in medical schools.:smile:


I don't think anyone is disputing that. The crux of the issue is that there is a perfectly adequate english proficiency test for doctors applying outside the EU - no such test exists inside Europe, leading to major communication difficulties which could be avoided by adding to the GMCs powers and not just relying on individual healthcare trusts.
Reply 10
I don't think I've ever really encountered any doctors from the EU, either as a student/working, or as a patient. Have had a few issues with a couple of Asian doctors, most of all one of the ones I was working for last year - I used to take twice as long to transcribe his tapes as I did for anyone else as they were so incomprehensible. It's perfectly possible (though I tried everything to make them as accurate as I could - checking against notes, checking the BNF for drugs, checking medical dictionaries and even my own anatomy notes!) that I made mistakes in my typing that could potentially be dangerous. I think that there is a strong argument for an oral English test as well as a written one.
Reply 11
my dentist asked my brother how you spell jack, i mean come on! we cant understand him so our teeth must be ****ed!
The solution is:

Hire the cream of the Sub Continental medical schools. I know many train for further qualifications here and in the US, and often land jobs here. Its the fast way to solve the medical crisis here.
Helenia
I don't think I've ever really encountered any doctors from the EU, either as a student/working, or as a patient. Have had a few issues with a couple of Asian doctors, most of all one of the ones I was working for last year - I used to take twice as long to transcribe his tapes as I did for anyone else as they were so incomprehensible. It's perfectly possible (though I tried everything to make them as accurate as I could - checking against notes, checking the BNF for drugs, checking medical dictionaries and even my own anatomy notes!) that I made mistakes in my typing that could potentially be dangerous. I think that there is a strong argument for an oral English test as well as a written one.

we have real bloody issues because the patient notes and letters are often (not kidding) sent abroad to be transcibed. Little mistakes can be devestating. In most cases it just ends up with a peeved doc, but in the clinic i was in yesterday - a neuro clinic we had an issue because the doc had order the guy an ECG to check his heart condition. Now any blooming med sec should know an ECG checks the heart electrics. Not so in india - after going to india and back the ECG had morphed into an EEG and so the guy had a completely pointless procedure.
In my opinion, I think that if we must have doctors who can't speak English they should be made to have an extra year long course in English that they must pass well, before they are even accepted on a course as important as medicine. They should do this in their own country though as if done in the UK it will cost us even more.

I have seen many doctors who I couldn't understand, as a result have sometimes had to ask for a second opinion, which would have taken up more time. Also I've been given the wrong prescription or dose many times and have had to go back to the doctors to get is changed. I know an 8 year old who suffered for an extra 5 or so days because a doctor who couldn't speak good English had given the wrong medication. Its astounding.
Initally I had trouble with understanding things that my neurologist was saying (he is from somewhere in Eastern Europe I think) however he is a very good doctor (with the fancy title of professor) who has been brilliant with all of my medical care...A few years ago I saw him giving an interview on the BBC six o clock news too but I couldn't quite understand everything he was saying.
Isnt there a big shortage in doctors so britain needs as many as we can get? i've never had a language barrier problem myself, but its worrying that people have to go to doctors who cannot communicate with them well enough :frown: i agree that there should be some kind of course to test how well a doctor can speak english.

although i used to get doctors who couldnt write properly (due to bad handwriting, not being foreign!), leading to the chemist giving me the wrong stuff! but now prescriptions are printed, thankfully!!!
Perhaps the EU should adopt English as its official language, being that it is lingua franca for all the world's educated class.