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A quick diagnostic of Labour's opposition to the euro CAP watch

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    A quick diagnostic of Labour's opposition to the European Common Agricultural Policy:


    Wow, all this talk of making trade markets fairer for African farmers seems uncommonly altruistic

    Let's have a think about this....



    No subsidised euro farmers
    means more expensive euro grown foods
    means imported foodstuffs from the third world
    means global agribusiness muscles into poverty stricken Africa
    means they can get around all the stringent legislation that already exists in the first world concerning food growth and labour
    means they can can exploit the third world workforce
    means they can cut corners and costs
    means, as they become more and more powerful and economically dominant, their invisible hand can control African policies into the future, with a virtually endless resource of manpower and an almost infinite scope for resource war.

    Come on
    Do you think we're stupid



    Suck that corporate **** right down Tony....
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    So tell me comadeep, what would you do whcih would simulataneously help Africa, be in the interest of Britain and its people, and keep your party in power.
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    I propose a new campaign : Make the EU history.

    Seriously, did they really think they would be able to get 12 (well, more than that now) different governments to agree on everything?
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    brilliant. it's questionable whether you would achieve the 3 objectives mentioned, I don't want to debate this as I'm not a europhile and it's mainly specualtion.
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    (Original post by comadeep)
    A quick diagnostic of Labour's opposition to the European Common Agricultural Policy:


    Wow, all this talk of making trade markets fairer for African farmers seems uncommonly altruistic

    Let's have a think about this....



    No subsidised euro farmers
    means more expensive euro grown foods
    means imported foodstuffs from the third world
    Please explain how the above turns into this:

    means global agribusiness muscles into poverty stricken Africa
    And then into this:

    means they can get around all the stringent legislation that already exists in the first world concerning food growth and labour
    means they can can exploit the third world workforce
    means they can cut corners and costs
    means, as they become more and more powerful and economically dominant, their invisible hand can control African policies into the future, with a virtually endless resource of manpower and an almost infinite scope for resource war.

    Come on
    Do you think we're stupid



    Suck that corporate **** right down Tony....
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    CAP disadvantages Britain, Africa, and the concept of free/fair trade. It also ensures the need for Britain's rebate, which is completely pointless and I look forward to the abolishment of both the CAP and our rebate.

    Blair is very much right to be taking this position, I'm proud of my leader... For once.
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    CAP is a disastrous waste of money.

    It creates cheaper agricultural produce which floods the world market, making African produced goods comparatively expensive. Thus, African businesses go out of business as they cannot compete with the artificially low prices.

    Not only that but the consumer in Europe looses out from what could be potentially cheaper food products imported from Africa.

    At 40% of the EU's budget, in short, it sucks. I'll be damned if we, or indeed Germany should pay for inefficient French farmers to do bugger all.
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    (Original post by comadeep)
    A quick diagnostic of Labour's opposition to the European Common Agricultural Policy:


    Wow, all this talk of making trade markets fairer for African farmers seems uncommonly altruistic

    Let's have a think about this....



    No subsidised euro farmers
    means more expensive euro grown foods
    means imported foodstuffs from the third world
    means global agribusiness muscles into poverty stricken Africa
    means they can get around all the stringent legislation that already exists in the first world concerning food growth and labour
    means they can can exploit the third world workforce
    means they can cut corners and costs
    means, as they become more and more powerful and economically dominant, their invisible hand can control African policies into the future, with a virtually endless resource of manpower and an almost infinite scope for resource war.

    Come on
    Do you think we're stupid



    Suck that corporate **** right down Tony....
    This seems like an unjustified attack on Labour just for the sake of it, I take it that you're a frustrated Lib Dem voter?
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    (Original post by Alique)
    CAP is a disastrous waste of money.

    It creates cheaper agricultural produce which floods the world market, making African produced goods comparatively expensive. Thus, African businesses go out of business as they cannot compete with the artificially low prices.

    Not only that but the consumer in Europe looses out from what could be potentially cheaper food products imported from Africa.

    At 40% of the EU's budget, in short, it sucks. I'll be damned if we, or indeed Germany should pay for inefficient French farmers to do bugger all.
    Yep your above point sums up why CAP should be abolished, as through dumping it drives African and ROW farmers out of business as well as all the concepts of it being inefficient and wasting resources. Also i dont know if people know, but a part of CAP involved spending on Tobacco subsidies to farmers which creates other problems and this money would be better spend creating jobs in more friendly areas and anti-smoking campaigns.

    So overal i agree Blair and the Labour govt are doing a great job with this and dont forget as Prezza rightly pointed out today...IT WAS THE TORIES WHO TOOK US INTO CAP!
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    This seems like an unjustified attack on Labour just for the sake of it, I take it that you're a frustrated Lib Dem voter?
    shut ur face
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    (Original post by john williams)
    Yep your above point sums up why CAP should be abolished, as through dumping it drives African and ROW farmers out of business as well as all the concepts of it being inefficient and wasting resources. Also i dont know if people know, but a part of CAP involved spending on Tobacco subsidies to farmers which creates other problems and this money would be better spend creating jobs in more friendly areas and anti-smoking campaigns.

    So overal i agree Blair and the Labour govt are doing a great job with this and dont forget as Prezza rightly pointed out today...IT WAS THE TORIES WHO TOOK US INTO CAP!
    I see that you brought up the faults of the last Conservative government to cover up the Labour government's incompetance. They always seem to do that when they can't put up a good defence. And anyway, I think that the CAP would have proceeded over the heads of the British government, considering that France had so much more clout at the time than now, and more than did Britain.
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    (Original post by comadeep)
    shut ur face
    well what good debating skills you have, when your losing an argument you resort to insults.
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    well what good debating skills you have, when your losing an argument you resort to insults.
    Don't forget the txtspk, because it's worth looking stupid if you save the time and effort it would have taken to type two whole letters.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    I see that you brought up the faults of the last Conservative government to cover up the Labour government's incompetance. They always seem to do that when they can't put up a good defence. And anyway, I think that the CAP would have proceeded over the heads of the British government, considering that France had so much more clout at the time than now, and more than did Britain.
    Could you just remind us who signed the UK up to the EC in the first place? And who signed us up to the Maastricht treaty, which established the current EU model?

    The CAP was laid down in the treaty of Rome in 1957, so it was one of the first EC policies.

    The CAP was subject to radical reform in 1992 (who was in power in 1992?) which provoked a gradual dismantling of the guaranteed price system and its replacement by direct individual payments to farmers.

    I’m by no means an expert in Agriculture, so I wont even try and explain the workings of the CAP, but what really gets on my nerves, are Tories who constantly say “not me guv’, I’ve got NOTHING to do with it!” when historical FACT shows that you were the party that signed us up to the EC in the first place, you were the party that signed us up to the EU as it is today, so we’re perfectly entitled to blame YOU for the CAP.

    Tony Blair has made his position quite clear; we’ll negotiate the budget if the rest of the EU agrees to CAP reform. Blair has taken the responsible route to this, and not the Thatcher “I’m giving nothing” approach.

    And the reason the Shadow Chancellor “brought up the faults of the last Conservative government” is that it’s going to take far longer than 8 years to clear up 18 years worth of Tory disasters.
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    (Original post by Lord Waddell)
    I see that you brought up the faults of the last Conservative government to cover up the Labour government's incompetance. They always seem to do that when they can't put up a good defence. And anyway, I think that the CAP would have proceeded over the heads of the British government, considering that France had so much more clout at the time than now, and more than did Britain.
    If you read closely you will see that the defences have already been made and i was simply reminding people of the history of it and yes it is one of the many faults of the last Tory govt (your words not mine). And this current administration is the first to actually put the 'rebate on the table' and propose changes to CAP in return of scrapping the rebate, something like cutting it from 70% of EU spending to 40%, which if spent wisely would make a huge difference considering how much is spent on CAP. It will then also have knock on benefits to developing countries as outlined above.
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    (Original post by john williams)
    well what good debating skills you have, when your losing an argument you resort to insults.
    I don't think that was meant offensively, the smiley said otherwise!
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    (Original post by comadeep)
    shut ur face
    Come over to the winning side, its nicer over here! And some of us are quite 'liberal'!
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    (Original post by martynwilliams)
    Could you just remind us who signed the UK up to the EC in the first place? And who signed us up to the Maastricht treaty, which established the current EU model?

    The CAP was laid down in the treaty of Rome in 1957, so it was one of the first EC policies.

    The CAP was subject to radical reform in 1992 (who was in power in 1992?) which provoked a gradual dismantling of the guaranteed price system and its replacement by direct individual payments to farmers.

    I’m by no means an expert in Agriculture, so I wont even try and explain the workings of the CAP, but what really gets on my nerves, are Tories who constantly say “not me guv’, I’ve got NOTHING to do with it!” when historical FACT shows that you were the party that signed us up to the EC in the first place, you were the party that signed us up to the EU as it is today, so we’re perfectly entitled to blame YOU for the CAP.

    Tony Blair has made his position quite clear; we’ll negotiate the budget if the rest of the EU agrees to CAP reform. Blair has taken the responsible route to this, and not the Thatcher “I’m giving nothing” approach.

    And the reason the Shadow Chancellor “brought up the faults of the last Conservative government” is that it’s going to take far longer than 8 years to clear up 18 years worth of Tory disasters.
    Considering that the Conservative government laid the foundations of the economic prosperity under the Labour government due to Thatcher's reforms and because she made many neccessary ones, I find it hard to believe that all 18 years of Conservative government were that bad. All that your government has done is to grant independance to the Bank of England and impose a whole load of regulations on business that it could have done without.

    While the Conservative government of the day signed up to the EC, the British people confirmed that decision in a referendum. Do I have to bring up past history to educate you?

    And I'm not sure whether you regard that CAP reform as a good thing, but I'll indulge you, the Conservative government was in power in 1992, in case you didn't know.

    Yes the Conservative government signed up to Maastricht, but that was over the heads of many Conservative MPs, and the Conservative Party is the only major party that has taken the lessons of the 1990s to heart, and has become Eurosceptic and anti-intergration, unlike the Labour Party.

    By your logic, we are perfectly entitled to blame the current government for the crisis in the EU and the state of the CAP, since they have been in government for 8 years. Don't you realise that there are other states in the EU who wish to protect the CAP, many of whom at the time were far more powerful than the UK ie France, so that many things procceed that the UK government doesn't approve of? You can't blame everything that this government does wrong on the last Conservative government.

    And finally:

    Who is the party in government that wants to take us into the Euro?
    Who is the party in government that wants us to sign up to the EU constitution?
    Who is the party in government that wants us to intergrate further into Europe?
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    (Original post by john williams)
    well what good debating skills you have, when your losing an argument you resort to insults.
    if i was trying that hard to insult you would know,believe me. i just think that mr.whatever the **** thats trying to start an argument with me is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.stupid questions deserve stupid answers such as 'shut ur face '
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    (Original post by comadeep)
    if i was trying that hard to insult you would know,believe me. i just think that mr.whatever the **** thats trying to start an argument with me is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.stupid questions deserve stupid answers such as 'shut ur face '
    Are you talking about me? i'm not trying to start a fight or call any kettle black!
 
 
 
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