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    Just a thought...

    A few weeks ago there was a series of good documentaries on BBC2 where Bruce Parry went to some of the most isolated tribal areas in the world.

    The tribes learnt to live on natural resources, feed themselves, sought absolute independence and loved each other. Not a moment seemed to pass of each day when they weren't happy. More of them smiled and passed jokes more than anybody i have ever known.
    On top of this, there are significant areas of untouched and undeveloped land, and beautiful blue oceans.

    If tribes are living in such beautiful places, and are happy to continue doing so, who are we to intervene?

    I'm not saying we should stop supplying aid and help for the needy, but there are some places where we should steer clear. Our western ways are not neccessarily the best direction for the entire world.
    Perhaps if we didn't have such great influence in the past, Africa would have fewer problems today.
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    So ur tryin to tell me that you haven't seen the pictures of emaciated African kids? We won't help those who need it, simple as that. And just because you live in a beautiful place doesn't mean you have a beautiful life.
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    (Original post by rach1986)
    So ur tryin to tell me that you haven't seen the pictures of emaciated African kids? We won't help those who need it, simple as that. And just because you live in a beautiful place doesn't mean you have a beautiful life.
    No, i'm not saying that, hence "I'm not saying we should stop supplying aid and help for the needy".

    Disease should be cured, but ending "poverty" full stop is a wrong move in many parts of Africa. Africa is not going to become a global player in my lifetime, and we could just worsen the situation.
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    And plus, Africa might have problems caused by the Western world, lets face it, Africa's downfall was partly brought on by us, but what about the corrupt leadership?
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    (Original post by rach1986)
    And plus, Africa might have problems caused by the Western world, lets face it, Africa's downfall was partly brought on by us, but what about the corrupt leadership?
    Try to keep on topic please. "Make poverty history" is not going to end corruption in Africa.
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    (Original post by rach1986)
    So ur tryin to tell me that you haven't seen the pictures of emaciated African kids? We won't help those who need it, simple as that. And just because you live in a beautiful place doesn't mean you have a beautiful life.
    That's not what he's saying at all..

    I agree with Beekeeper though - there are places where the people are happy with what they have, and have survived with and adapted their way of life for a long time. They're also content with what they have, unlike us in the West who are always wanting more..
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    I don't think the charities are going to give support to those who aren't starving anyway. Plus, I don't see how it could possibly get any worse!
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    Well, ur the one saying that we should steer clear of these places, we are not going to intervene there anyway, so whats the problem?
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    (Original post by rach1986)
    Well, ur the one saying that we should steer clear of these places, we are not going to intervene there anyway, so whats the problem?
    Western influences are increasingly becoming a feature of everyday life in some of the most tribal areas of Africa...
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    (Original post by rach1986)
    Well, ur the one saying that we should steer clear of these places, we are not going to intervene there anyway, so whats the problem?
    Who said "we" won't intervene there?
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    I don't think this whole episode has been about 'tribes'. The people who really need help are the people who have no means by which to feed themselves, have no jobs, and are in the type of environment where there is scare natural food etc. Not that they have the know-how to catch their own food if there was any. African societies, generally, were founded upon western capitalism, but hardly any of the institutions they rely on are present, so they are caught in a funny middle ground between western and 'tribal' societies.
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    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    I don't think this whole episode has been about 'tribes'. The people who really need help are the people who have no means by which to feed themselves, have no jobs, and are in the type of environment where there is scare natural food etc. Not that they have the know-how to catch their own food if there was any. African societies, generally, were founded upon western capitalism, but hardly any of the institutions they rely on are present, so they are caught in a funny middle ground between western and 'tribal' societies.
    Thank you, my sentiments exactly!
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    If tribes are living in such beautiful places, and are happy to continue doing so, who are we to intervene?
    But the liberals will complain that they're only pretending to be happy. After all, they need to know about abortion, they need to know you can't mix church and state, they need to know if one guy has 6 banana's he must partake in banana redistribution, they need to know about safe sex, they need to know that homo's are allowed to get married.

    Geez Beekeeper, how can anyone be happy without knowing all this good stuff?
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    Of course thats not to say that parts of Africa aren't doing well. Western capitalism is working wonders in Kenya at the moment apparantly. As long as it is ensured that well-performing regimes handle Africa in the future we should see the end of this kind of poverty in the next few decades.
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    They don't have to be westernised through giving them aid and food.

    I agree with OpressedMass, well said.
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    Leave them to sort their own problems out, they will be better of for it in the long run.
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    Some tribes are self-sufficient and exist happily - fair enough, leave them alone BUT you know full well that there are massive problems in Africa with millions starving, poor sanitation, HIV/AIDS.

    I agree that we shouldn't force Africa into Westernization, I think that is essentially wrong and will destroy African culture - but Africa needs help and is crippled by debts, which is the whole essence of the MAKEPOVERTYHISTORY campaign (it started by demanding the dissolution of all 3rd world debt).
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    (Original post by LC01)
    Leave them to sort their own problems out, they will be better of for it in the long run.
    So until then, it'll be okay to just let 50,000 people a day die?
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    (Original post by LC01)
    Leave them to sort their own problems out, they will be better of for it in the long run.
    Lol. Because that has worked so well in Darfur!
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    Agreed BK. The whole interventionist argument is founded on two beliefs;
    1) They are the same as us under the skin, and can live like us if we help them to.
    2) They are starving, so we should help.

    The first belief is wrongheaded and racist, and leads via aid, emigration and adoption of western agriculture and medicine to population explosion - which causes the starving. The second belief leads us to help out todays generation, who go on to breed even more necessarily helpless beggars.

    We should leave them alone, or only intervene to help them bring down their population.

    The tribes Bruce Parry visited did not suffer from poverty, they had rich native cultures, a relationship with their environment that we lack, and no need of aid or intervention.
 
 
 

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