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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    A very eloquent way of saying "who cares, they ain't white".
    LC01 can answer for himself, but I wanted to say this. A key problem in Africa is defatism and fatalism, this feeds in to an already desperate cycle and contributes to the violence and corruption, which breeds even more d & f.
    But a major part of the depressed psyche is a feeling that Africans cannot sort out their own problems, and there's a large racial element of course which creates a pervasive resentment of Whites on one hand but a violent rejection of African culture on the other.
    Only when the West makes Africa responsible for it's own future will Africans begin to work together, and only if Africans sort out their own problems will Africa have any self-respect and confidence.

    Treat them like adults.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Because what it really means is that under their skin, they are White, and will adopt our civilisation if we reshape their cultures, behaviours and traditions. It's not true. Our culture is different and suits us but isn't right for everybody. We don't want to live like Bushmen. We are different.
    Thats not what true at all. Its established fact that the human race stems from Africa, so technically, under our skin, we're black.

    On a less abstract point. It is free media that leads to uptake of our culture by Africans, not Western political intervention. I believe that we should install, or support certain institutions such as couts of law and education systems because they clearly are not competant at doing it themselves. That does not mean we dictate punishments for criminals in their countries or their school syllabuses. How can you be so cynical as to say that make poverty history is just cultural imperialism?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Regardless of race, Africa has a wealth of different cultures, all different to ours.
    Africa is a massive and amazing continent - full of a different range of culture and people, lifestyles and ideologies. People seem to often generalise the whole continent without realising just how big it is and how much culture it holds.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    To give children an education, which will teach them the fundamentals that they'll require in life such as literacy and numeracy skills. Also, sex education, sanitation and nutrition will improve basic health and children will be able to build on their education by studying more, developing skills and improving the country's industry (which in turn improves the economy).
    In many parts of Africa, there are traditional, natural ways of doing these basic skills. They don't need our schools to show them how to do it.

    Why should Africa need industry? :confused: As i said, there are places with no development or industry at all, yet the inhabitants are some of the most content people on the planet.

    The model of Africa that you encourage is just another Westernised country, many Africans would refuse to own private property, for example, viewing it as immoral.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    Africa is a massive and amazing continent - full of a different range of culture and people, lifestyles and ideologies. People seem to often generalise the whole continent without realising just how big it is and how much culture it holds.
    That's what I've heard too, which is why I'm hoping to experience some of it for myself next year.
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    Perhaps if we didn't have such great influence in the past, Africa would have fewer problems today.
    Bingo.

    Finally someone understands.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    In many parts of Africa, there are traditional, natural ways of doing these basic skills. They don't need our schools to show them how to do it.

    Why should Africa need industry? :confused: As i said, there are places with no development or industry at all, yet the inhabitants are some of the most content people on the planet.

    The model of Africa that you encourage is just another Westernised country, many Africans would refuse to own private property, for example, viewing it as immoral.
    But without development they cannot fight things like AIDS independently. Do you propose leaving Africa dependent on the West for medicine and food aid in order to maintain their contentedness?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    In many parts of Africa, there are traditional, natural ways of doing these basic skills. They don't need our schools to show them how to do it.

    Why should Africa need industry? :confused: As i said, there are places with no development or industry at all, yet the inhabitants are some of the most content people on the planet.

    The model of Africa that you encourage is just another Westernised country, many Africans would refuse to own private property, for example, viewing it as immoral.
    "Industry" was a generalisation - I wasn't refering to mass factories and heavy polluting plants, but more general services such as those of a doctor, accountant or architect. They contribute to a better standard of living in communities and pave the way to improved conditions.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Bingo.

    Finally someone understands.
    But what does that change??
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    But without development they cannot fight things like AIDS independently. Do you propose leaving Africa dependent on the West for medicine and food aid in order to maintain their contentedness?
    AIDS are not a major problem in all of Africa, only in parts that have handled the transition to Westernised standards badly.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    In many parts of Africa, there are traditional, natural ways of doing these basic skills. They don't need our schools to show them how to do it.

    Why should Africa need industry? :confused: As i said, there are places with no development or industry at all, yet the inhabitants are some of the most content people on the planet.

    The model of Africa that you encourage is just another Westernised country, many Africans would refuse to own private property, for example, viewing it as immoral.
    No, no, no. I can see your points beekeeper darling but there are too many flaws associated with them.

    I completely agree that we shouldn't promote Westernization on the African continent, but to drive Africa out of poverty we do need to intervene - we caused it, so we need to help stimulate a revolution.

    If we only mildly intervene nothing will be achieved long-term.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    But what does that change??
    Well, for a start its one of many arguments that contradict the nationalist position of 'its not our problem'.
    It shows that we have a certain amount of responsibility.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Bingo.

    Finally someone understands.
    Eliminating the West (which you've identified as the problem) isn't going to help Africa much..
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    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    On a less abstract point. It is free media that leads to uptake of our culture by Africans, not Western political intervention. I believe that we should install, or support certain institutions such as couts of law and education systems because they clearly are not competant at doing it themselves. That does not mean we dictate punishments for criminals in their countries or their school syllabuses. How can you be so cynical as to say that make poverty history is just cultural imperialism?
    Well this is the racist "all white under the skin argument" given free rein.

    BK's right they have their own folkways, justice system, ways of educating and economic systems. Their problems are caused by 'cultural imperialism' lead by the incredible power of western mass media, and the universalist idea you evidently share in the primacy of western civ. and it's suitability for everyone.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    accountant or architect. They contribute to a better standard of living in communities and pave the way to improved conditions.
    In some parts, perhaps. But in many parts of Africa, this would be viewed as immoral and quite rightly so, a slow erosion of some of the most distinct cultures of the continent.

    We can't really say that situations would be "improved" just because things would be done our way.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    Eliminating the West (which you've identified as the problem) isn't going to help Africa much..
    I'm not saying we should totally exclude ourselves from it now, but if we had not gone over there in the first place, then maybe Africa would have had less problems. Which is what beekeeper said, and I concur.
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    (Original post by pradster)
    Eliminating the West (which you've identified as the problem) isn't going to help Africa much..
    Nobody suggested eliminating the west :confused:
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    AIDS are not a major problem in all of Africa, only in parts that have handled the transition to Westernised standards badly.
    At it's current rate, given time, the AIDS crisis will spiral out of control and will engulf much of Africa as well as many other parts of the world..
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    (Original post by pradster)
    At it's current rate, given time, the AIDS crisis will spiral out of control and will engulf much of Africa as well as many other parts of the world..
    Thats why i suggested treating disease, and i made this very clear...
    But as for going any further than that, i feel would be a bad move.

    Supply treatment for disease, and leave the continent to live and breathe by itself.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Well this is the racist "all white under the skin argument" given free rein.

    BK's right they have their own folkways, justice system, ways of educating and economic systems. Their problems are caused by 'cultural imperialism' lead by the incredible power of western mass media, and the universalist idea you evidently share in the primacy of western civ. and it's suitability for everyone.
    Not really. I meant establishing or supporting the institutions, not every rule and regulation etc. Look at it this way; Africa has had 50/40/30 years of independence post British Empire, what have they achieved? In most cases nothing, they will continue to wallow in a downward spiral if we do not act.
 
 
 
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