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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Agreed, I already addressed the rejection of tradition African culture and the turning toward the West for answers and futures - I'm suggesting you're incredibly short sighted.

    It doesn't resemble, much less bear a striking similarity to 'voluntary repatriation', I'm suggesting you're stretching to suggest unpleasant motives for my comments, best leave the tea-leaves alone and just comment on my posts.
    Hmmm. You are suggesting that Africans would flock to live in tribes had they the chance, I'm saying thats ball locks. That coherent enough for you?
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    (Original post by LC01)
    taken into account.
    Link?
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Beekeeper isn't a racist. The same can't be said for one or two others, however.
    Taking hints on the internet is hard, are you implying I'm racist?
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    I believe you. :rolleyes:
    Could not care less :tsr:
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    (Original post by LC01)
    Im sick of hearing the hardships of africa, no one help us during the years of the black death WE sorted our own problems out, they should sort their problems out, its NOTHING to do with us.
    Circumstances were slightly different. Nobody came to the shorelines on ships, hoarded the strongest into the ships and sent them to a foreign land to be slaves in a nation they'd never heard of. Additionally, the country's mineral and valuable sources weren't being robbed blind for the benefit of the uninvited guests leaving a continent with vastly reduced mineral sources to support itself.
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    (Original post by TomX)
    Taking hints on the internet is hard, are you implying I'm racist?
    Seriously, I'm not.
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    I must have missed something.. what does poverty in Africa have to do with the War in Iraq?
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    (Original post by pradster)
    Circumstances were slightly different. Nobody came to the shorelines on ships, hoarded the strongest into the ships and sent them to a foreign land to be slaves in a nation they'd never heard of. Additionally, the country's mineral and valuable sources weren't being robbed blind for the benefit of the uninvited guests leaving a continent with vastly reduced mineral sources to support itself.
    Nobody came to the shorelines on ships, hoarded the strongest into the ships and sent them to a foreign land to be slaves in a nation they'd never heard of
    Yes actually they did
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    (Original post by pradster)
    How do you propose they'd do that? They've been given a perception of life in the West that is much better than their own. Telling them that that's not the life for them will raise a few eyebrows..
    If they can create a western-style society and economy by their own efforts, fine. Their constant failure to do so tho', and the regression of most countries since the White pull out, has created a cracked psyche of anti-white resentment and defeatism toward African culture.

    Whatever healing of the African soul takes place will be because Africans have managed to sort out their own problems. If you think they will become bowler-hatted city boys, supermarket managers or factory workers I think you're wishful thinking.

    Dark Star Safari, by Paul Theroux,
    ...The most fascinating dialog is over the subject of Indian merchants, who were kicked out of Uganda, Malawi, and other places for dominating retail business. After a quarter-century, a few of their shops have been made into bars, but most are empty. Some have African women squatting outside selling vegetables on the ground.

    Theroux speaks to a group of educated Africans about this. One mocks the Indian shopkeepers. He says they were everlastingly writing down lists of merchandise and adding up the figures, one, two, three, one, two, three.
    "But that's how a shop is run," Theroux says. "That's normal business. You make a list of what you've sold, so you know what stuff to reorder."

    "But we Africans are not raised in this way," the African says. "What do we care about shops and counting? . . . Selling is not our heritage. We are not business people."

    Another African, a former ambassador who had been listening in, says: "When Africans run businesses, their families come in and stay with them and eat all their food — just live off them. As soon as an African succeeds in something, he has his family cadging off him. Not so?"
    "That is true, brother," one says.
    "And we are not cut out for this shopkeeping and bookkeeping and" — the former ambassador winks at Theroux — "this number crunching."

    "I had never heard such ********," Theroux writes. "Well, perhaps I had and not recognized it. The man was saying: This is all too much for us. We cannot learn how to do business. We must be given money, we must be given sinecures, because we don't know how to make a profit."
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Link?
    I will try and find you one (I read it in a newspaper about a year ago)
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    (Original post by LC01)
    I will try and find you one (I read it in a newspaper about a year ago)
    :hello: :wavey: :boxing:
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    (Original post by LC01)
    I will try and find you one (I read it in a newspaper about a year ago)
    So how can you be sure that inflation was taken into account if you cant even remember where you read it.
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    because Europeans are responsible for Africa's poverty, both in past and at present.
    ..... it is our duty, as humans, to help each other.
    ...... in future trade will benefit both Africa and Europe.
    ......in future new resources will be needed and they may be extracted from Africa.
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    (Original post by LC01)
    Yes actually they did
    No they didn't - the colonisers went there and got themselves captured while they were looking for strong men to enslave and send to Southern United States.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    If they can create a western-style society and economy by their own efforts, fine. Their constant failure to do so tho', and the regression of most countries since the White pull out, has created a cracked psyche of anti-white resentment and defeatism toward African culture.

    Whatever healing of the African soul takes place will be because Africans have managed to sort out their own problems. If you think they will become bowler-hatted city boys, supermarket managers or factory workers I think you're wishful thinking.

    Dark Star Safari, by Paul Theroux,
    ...The most fascinating dialog is over the subject of Indian merchants, who were kicked out of Uganda, Malawi, and other places for dominating retail business. After a quarter-century, a few of their shops have been made into bars, but most are empty. Some have African women squatting outside selling vegetables on the ground.

    Theroux speaks to a group of educated Africans about this. One mocks the Indian shopkeepers. He says they were everlastingly writing down lists of merchandise and adding up the figures, one, two, three, one, two, three.
    "But that's how a shop is run," Theroux says. "That's normal business. You make a list of what you've sold, so you know what stuff to reorder."

    "But we Africans are not raised in this way," the African says. "What do we care about shops and counting? . . . Selling is not our heritage. We are not business people."

    Another African, a former ambassador who had been listening in, says: "When Africans run businesses, their families come in and stay with them and eat all their food — just live off them. As soon as an African succeeds in something, he has his family cadging off him. Not so?"
    "That is true, brother," one says.
    "And we are not cut out for this shopkeeping and bookkeeping and" — the former ambassador winks at Theroux — "this number crunching."

    "I had never heard such ********," Theroux writes. "Well, perhaps I had and not recognized it. The man was saying: This is all too much for us. We cannot learn how to do business. We must be given money, we must be given sinecures, because we don't know how to make a profit."
    That was an excellent extract - thank you very much for providing that link
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    because Europeans are responsible for Africa's poverty, both in past and at present.
    ..... it is our duty, as humans, to help each other.
    ...... in future trade will benefit both Africa and Europe.
    ......in future new resources will be needed and they may be extracted from Africa.
    Suppose I'm a rich business owner wanting to set up a new factory, the cheapest labour in the world would be found in Africa, but I don't go there - why? Is it because of Tony Blair or George Bush? Or is it because of Africa's endemic corruption, and the suspicion that people in other oarts of the world would work harder?
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    because Europeans are responsible for Africa's poverty, both in past and at present.
    ..... it is our duty, as humans, to help each other.
    ...... in future trade will benefit both Africa and Europe.
    ......in future new resources will be needed and they may be extracted from Africa.
    ..... it is our duty, as humans, to help each other.
    how have they helped us?
    ...... in future trade will benefit both Africa and Europe.
    I dont like the idea of globalisation
    ......in future new resources will be needed and they may be extracted from Africa
    In the future the main fuel will be hydrogen which can be taken from water.
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    (Original post by LC01)
    how have they helped us?
    Well the colonisers took a large proportion of their natural resources and exploited the people for purposes such as slavery which benefited colonisers greatly and the colonies not so much..

    (Original post by LC01)
    I dont like the idea of globalisation
    And there goes the UK economy..

    (Original post by LC01)
    In the future the main fuel will be hydrogen which can be taken from water.
    Seperating the bond between Hydrogen and Oxygen in a Water molecule requires energy too - where's that going to come from?
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    Originally Posted by ArthurOliver:
    Agreed, I already addressed the rejection of tradition African culture and the turning toward the West for answers and futures...

    Response of OpressedMass:
    Hmmm. You are suggesting that Africans would flock to live in tribes had they the chance, I'm saying thats ball locks. That coherent enough for you?

    ArthurOliver:
    Quite coherent enough for me to draw a conclusion, yes.
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    I understand what you're saying. I guess it depends on how you define poverty. I think it would be patronising to try to end "poverty" in a region where the tribes were self-sufficient and independent just because their culture differs from the Western one. However, I don't think the poverty in Africa (in general) is of this kind. There are many people who are suffering of starvations and of AIDS; people who don't have the basic resources they need such as food and water. In such a case, I think it is a case of actual poverty rather then a cultural difference.

    I think it is naive to think that either all people who haven't adopted the Westen culture must be living in poverty. But similarly, I think is naive to pretend that those who haven't adopted the Western culture do not suffer from poverty because their culture is different. In every society, there are people who are richer, and those who are poorer, some who are better of than others.

    I think fundamentally, we are all the same. I don't mean that everyone is white deep down. If you take a look at any society, even looking back in history, there are always similarities. People always want basic resources (food etc). They want to be free. They want to make the society better (whatever their definition of better is). They have wars for the same reasons (even their weapons might differ). They often adopt some sort of religion. They have some method of communication. And they always want the best for themselves and their family. I admit I don't know about every society that's ever existed, and there are probably exceptions. But I think it is fair to say that as humans, we all have similarities that are unaffected by culture. Of course they are ways in which are culture defines us such as language, food (i.e types of food that we eat rather than the fact that we eat food) etc...

    I don't think the solution is to completely westernise them. They need to find a solution that works for them. That may or may not be westernisation. I think there's a difference between aiding them with issues that are common to all humans and trying to change their culture. Trying to stop any more people from dying of starvation/ill health would be an example of the former. Assuming that the best way is necessarily the western way would be an example of the latter.
 
 
 

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