Irish inferiority complex Watch

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Rich B*tch
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Their country is falling apart, yet they continue to overcompensate and bang on about how happy they are to be independent from the UK. Ok, we get it, you have your own chunk of land!

I just find that most Irish people continue to have some anachronistic chip on their shoulder with regards to Britain.

I also find it highly ironic that nationalists campaigned, barbarically, for years for a sovereign parliament/judiciary and to be free of the shackles of unions and empires, yet they then proceed to throw away their parliamentary sovereignty and welcome their EU overlords with open arms!

Disclaimer: Not all Irish people have an inferiority complex or are zealous nationalists; however, I believe it is a significant proportion of the population.
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Fusion
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At least the Irish had the balls to make some deep budget cuts. Over here it's 'efficiency savings'.
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Adorno
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(Original post by Rich B*tch)
I just find that most Irish people continue to have some anachronistic chip on their shoulder with regards to Britain
Oh the irony. D'you ever stop and think to yourself why some Scots, Welsh, and Irish want to be free of the English? It's a petty nationalism that doesn't get us anywhere, but it'll always be there unless you consider that particular question.
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Cesare Borgia
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(Original post by Rich B*tch)
Their country is falling apart
Have you seen how much debt this country is in? I agree with the point you're making but I wouldn't get cocky about the situation here.
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Rich B*tch
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(Original post by Adorno)
Oh the irony. D'you ever stop and think to yourself why some Scots, Welsh, and Irish want to be free of the English?
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Adorno
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(Original post by Rich B*tch)
ark at me trying to be clever
David Starkey knows very little about the history of his own country let alone that of Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. But again, my point was that until you understand the why, you cannot ever get beyond it. Your post represents nothing more than a latent English nationalism which is hidden behind a cloud of innocence and superiority but that has for so long been a motivating factor behind much of the nationalism that you deride as puerile.
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Dumdedoobie
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Just like I'm sure some Scottish, Welsh and English people like to think of themselves as being their own country, I like to think that I am Irish. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if your country was split up with a border that put "half the people in Britain, half them in Ireland." And I think you refering to it as an inferiority complex is pretty moronic.
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ceeeeej
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what recent event sparked this thread?
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Rich B*tch
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(Original post by Adorno)
David Starkey knows very little about the history of his own country let alone that of Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. But again, my point was that until you understand the why, you cannot ever get beyond it. Your post represents nothing more than a latent English nationalism which is hidden behind a cloud of innocence and superiority but that has for so long been a motivating factor behind much of the nationalism that you deride as puerile.
Change "English" to "Welsh" and that's precisely what you're engaging in.
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L i b
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(Original post by Adorno)
David Starkey knows very little about the history of his own country let alone that of Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. But again, my point was that until you understand the why, you cannot ever get beyond it. Your post represents nothing more than a latent English nationalism which is hidden behind a cloud of innocence and superiority but that has for so long been a motivating factor behind much of the nationalism that you deride as puerile.
Even as a Scottish person, I'm inclined to agree with what David Starkey says in that clip: overcompensating on patriotism really is the hallmark of a feeble country. In Scotland, we get blasted with this cringeworthy nonsense about Scottishness all the time - usually thanks to that repugnant Scottish Executive in Edinburgh - and you get the entertaining spectacle of completely unlettered people claiming Burns was a great poet, despite only being able to (at best) muddle their way through Auld Lang Syne. In reality, few of those who claim Burns as a significant national figure are capable of assessing the merit of his work.

It's sad when these narrow-minded ********* adopt things as their own. Charles Rennie Macintosh, for example, became deeply unfashionable amongst artists and designers for many years quite simply because of its cheap populist approval. It is only recently that it has been properly reclaimed from the lower middle classes, whose only appreciation of it was the fact that it was local.

(Original post by Diaz89)
Shut the hell up OP, I like Irish people :yep:
That doesn't make them beyond criticism. I too know and like a great many Irish people, but their national identity really is somewhat juvenile. Their nationalism really is the very worst sort.
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ByronicHero
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My dads pride at being Irish always seemed to stem from the culture, the music and so on - not from the mere fact of being independant of another country, the same can be said of pretty much all the together Irish people I know although, the sample is biased as they all currently live in England.

I can't for the life of me work out why this thread would be made other than a hatred for the irish on the part of the OP... got to love TSR.
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Adorno
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(Original post by L i b)
Even as a Scottish person, I'm inclined to agree with what David Starkey says in that clip: overcompensating on patriotism really is the hallmark of a feeble country. In Scotland, we get blasted with this cringeworthy nonsense about Scottishness all the time - usually thanks to that repugnant Scottish Executive in Edinburgh - and you get the entertaining spectacle of completely unlettered people claiming Burns was a great poet, despite only being able to (at best) muddle their way through Auld Lang Syne. In reality, few of those who claim Burns as a significant national figure are capable of assessing the merit of his work.
I know, I know - be thankful you don't have a language of your own which gets adopted as a badge of an exclusive identity. Starkey is right about being small nations seeking a sense of individuality but I don't think that the nationalism that has grown up in Wales and Scotland is quite so Napoleon-syndrome as he suggests. I don't think that Scotland, Wales, or Ireland are feeble countries but I don think that they've made a business out of being different from the imperial English identity that is promoted out of London to which not even all the English subscribe.

But yes, there is a romantic heart to all of this nationalism, which, let us remember, was forged at a time when the continent was closed to the rich of England who wanted to go on their Grand Tours and so you had the Scots and the Welsh falling over themselves to create an alternative grand tour and unwittingly sparking off over two centuries of cultural revival of a kind of 'tourist board' ilk. This is certainly the case for Wales: you had writers singing of lands of poets, singers, and bards of the hills at a time when many parts of Wales were being transformed by the industrial revolution; when men raised the red flag at Merthyr not as a symbol of Wales but as a symbol of their class. And the same can be said of Scotland and Ireland and indeed England.

But the problem we face is that the English, in many respects, refuse to acknowledge their cultural nationalism (which became cultural imperialism - which is not to ignore the complicity of the Scots, the Welsh, and the Anglo-Irish) and then to digest and get over it. This is, in my view, why so much of the debate around the EU, for example, is couched in sovereigntist terms. It has little to do with the substance of the EU and the debates that can be had but rather to do with the Little Englander paranoia.

Until we all deal with our nationalism we'll never get rid of it.
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Adorno
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(Original post by Rich B*tch)
Change "English" to "Welsh" and that's precisely what you're engaging in.
Is it? I'm afraid you're either going to have to defend that charge or withdraw it; either way it's patently not true.
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cardine92
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So nationalism is wrong unless it's the British sort?
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Adorno
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(Original post by cardine92)
So nationalism is wrong unless it's the British sort?
Well, even then ... we all know what British means
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FootPrints
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(Original post by Dumdedoobie)
I'm sure you wouldn't like it if your country was split up with a border that put "half the people in Britain, half them in Ireland."
Someone needs to get over that :rolleyes:
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L i b
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(Original post by cardine92)
So nationalism is wrong unless it's the British sort?
Well, British nationalism is quite a different thing from the nationalisms seen in Scotland, Wales and Ireland precisely because there is a British state. As such, it is true civic nationalism (ie, not what the SNP et al call "civic nationalism", which is really just a euphemism for "moderate nationalism" ). Support for the existing structures is quite different, and very much more respectable, than demanding new ones to reflect an invented ethnic or social group's apparent "rights".

Let us not forget that the British state, long before its time and very bravely, disregarded nationalism in order to create itself - rejecting the strongly held political identities of Englishmen and Scotsmen to create a unified Britain. I very much like that fact.
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Adorno
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(Original post by L i b)
Let us not forget that the British state, long before its time and very bravely, disregarded nationalism in order to create itself - rejecting the strongly held political identities of Englishmen and Scotsmen to create a unified Britain. I very much like that fact.
Didn't give Welshmen much of a say though
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Belfast Fiddler
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Can I say that I am amazed and horrified at the level of ignorance displayed by the OP. Did you perhaps forget that any animosity held by Irish people towards England stems from centuries of abuse and violence perpetrated upon our country by our larger neighbour? People are very quick to say 'move on', but such a thing should never be forgotten, the English tried to systematically destroy our culture and our language(and very nearly succeeded), and were responsible for the deaths of millions of Irish people. You point to our dearly held sense of nationalism: do you find it terrible that we enjoy having our own rich vibrant culture, and we enjoy being able to govern ourselves according to what we believe is best for us, and not to suit the demands of another country? You also raise the issue of Europe. The fact is that the EU provides many benefits that outweigh it's disadvantages, with the trade advantages it gives us by far compensating for the limited amount of legislation they pass that we have to adhere to. You are also very quick to label Ireland as a country in meltdown. Ireland has suffered during the recession, but no more than England has, the opinions you express are born out of your own ignorance and from following the propoganda distributed by the English media which feels free to lambast the state of my country because it is unable or unwilling to take a closer look at it's own nation. Our efforts for freedom are labelled as barbaric, yet you yourself are a citizen of a nation that for hundreds of years subjugated countless territories using superior technology so that it could rape their resources. Your own sense of nationalism has given you a poisonous, skewed view of the patriotism of those who were once under your control and those who still are. I don't limit my views to Ireland. I believe that it is a wonderful necessity that both Scotland and Wales have a strong national identity.
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Stalin
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(Original post by Rich B*tch)
Their country is falling apart, yet they continue to overcompensate and bang on about how happy they are to be independent from the UK. Ok, we get it, you have your own chunk of land!
The UK's the country falling apart, the £'s decreasing day by day, manufacturing wise the UK has nothing, the economy is based on banks and insurances and when recessions happen these sectors are the hardest hit(which is why the UK was and still is in such a colossal mess), it's in a ridiculous amount of debt, $12 trillion I believe.

Have the British press brainwashed you into thinking that the UK is still an important country in the world? And that Ireland, which is doing great considering it's size and population, is doing badly? The US, China, India, Japan, Germany, France and Russia will all be laughing in 10 years, at just how small you really are, they're all miles ahead and will continue to advance, whilst jolly old England is still thinking about it's glorious empire. And you're the one saying move on, ironic to say the least.

I just find that most Irish people continue to have some anachronistic chip on their shoulder with regards to Britain.
Oh the irony.

I also find it highly ironic that nationalists campaigned, barbarically, for years for a sovereign parliament/judiciary and to be free of the shackles of unions and empires, yet they then proceed to throw away their parliamentary sovereignty and welcome their EU overlords with open arms!
Just because the EU doesn't suit the UK, it doesn't mean that it won't suit other countries, France and Germany are doing fine in this 'union', as is Ireland.

Disclaimer: Not all Irish people have an inferiority complex or are zealous nationalists; however, I believe it is a significant proportion of the population.
It's fairly easy to say 'move on', but what the English tried to do to Ireland, Scotland and Wales should never be forgotten, no wonder each country is full of nationalists, had it not been for out ancestors there would not be Ireland, Scotland or Wales today, the British Isles would be shaded red all around, it'd just be England.
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