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is it fair that america gets the blame for israels actions ?? watch

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    is it fair that america gets the blame for israels actions ??
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    The US government has long acted to support Israel, they provide large amounts of funding to them and supply them arms. They also Vito any UN Security Council action on the illegal Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    They are condoning the Israel illegal behaviour so I see no reason that they should not share the blame.

    IGS
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    (Original post by I.G.S.)
    The US government has long acted to support Israel, they provide large amounts of funding to them and supply them arms. They also Vito any UN Security Council action on the illegal Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

    They are condoning the Israel illegal behaviour so I see no reason that they should not share the blame.

    IGS
    Israel and the USA are both independant states, with the right and ability to act in their own interests. Have you considered that perhaps Israel feels the need for US support because it is threatened by its Arab neighbours and Palestinian terrorists? Who have already tried many times to destry the state of Israel? And Israel is currently trying to evacuate the Gaza Strip against the fierce protests of its settlers and many other Israelis, with US and British support. This shows that they are actually trying to get peace in Israel, and throughout the Middle East.
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    I don't thin the answer is as black and white as yes and no. Have i heard correctly? Israel recieves more US aid than any other country?
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    The occupation has gone on since the late 60's, and has involved the building of Israeli settlements on land that belongs (according to international law) to the Palestinians. These settlements were built with the support of the Israeli government of the time. This can't be said to legal and yet the US stopped the UN Security Council from acting, so surely must share the blame for the crime that was committed.

    During Israeli military operations in the West Bank and Gaza there are numerous cases of innocent civilians having their access to food, water and medical treatment denied for long periods. Further to this there were soldiers firing on unarmed children. Yet the American government will not allow the UN to act, thereby allowing these atrocities to occur.

    The American government among others supplied arms to a country that was committing what are war crimes, and yet we are not to blame them?

    I recognise that Israel has been threatened by terrorists, but this does not mean that they can act in the ways I have described above, nor does it mean the rest of the world should turn a blind eye while they do it.

    If we are to combat terrorism we can not do it by stooping to the terrorists levels.
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    The fallout from the whole horrible fiasco affects the whole world but the blame probably belongs to very few.

    The ideal of Zionism is pretty irresistible. Few can begrudge the Jewish desire for a homeland, I can't condemn them for attaining it by whatever means. My primary gripe with Israel now, is not their treatment of Palestinians (that's a problem for Palestinians), what I most object to is that the rest of the world must pick up the tab for the failure of the Jewish Zionist ideal.

    At best the Zionist ideal hoped to lay to rest the ancient slander of parasitism that Jews have always been tagged with. Not only would Jews have their own homeland, but they would no longer be living off the labour of others, they'd be paying their own way, doing their own manual labour, toiling in their own fields and shovelling their own sh..ditches.

    Trouble is, I'm not convinced that the claims of Israel functioning only via 'economic apartheid' in which non-Jews do most of the ditchy jobs, maybe even with an ethnic stratification of Jewish groups, are unfair. I'm not convinced even that the 'economic' prefix for apartheid is necessary.

    I'm concerned also that the massive aid to Israel from the US requires a similar level of partisan subversion of the media, congress and parties. Israel's military power so overwhelms it's neighbours that I feel the continued willingness to take the US Dollar is blatant greed.

    So Israel is not just keeping alive the parasite slander when it's all but dead in the rest of the world, it's endless grasping and the exploitation of Palestinians is actually justifying the claim. And because the US gives so much to Israel, the EU (me included) gives to the Palestinians.

    Somebody convince me I'm wrong, show me that;
    1) non-Jews don't do most of the ****** jobs in Israel
    2) Non-Jewish citizens aren't a second class
    3) there isn't bias in US media
    4) Jewish groups don't fund US politicians at obscene levels

    These are widespread beliefs and they appear to be backed up by quite a lot of evidence, if true they are also easily fixed.

    Israel can stand alone and start behaving like a modern democratic state, it just has to break with the politicians and policies which have brought it into so much worldwide disrepute.

    It has to rediscover the ideals of Zionism which most of us believe were once sincerely held, until then there will be no peace and Israel will remain a pariah.

    I look at Israel and see that the very ideals of Zionism, self sufficiency and overturning age-old prejudices are thwarted by the actions of their leaders. Am I wrong?
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The fallout from the whole horrible fiasco affects the whole world but the blame probably belongs to very few.

    The ideal of Zionism is pretty irresistible. Few can begrudge the Jewish desire for a homeland, I can't condemn them for attaining it by whatever means. My primary gripe with Israel now, is not their treatment of Palestinians (that's a problem for Palestinians), what I most object to is that the rest of the world must pick up the tab for the failure of the Jewish Zionist ideal.

    At best the Zionist ideal hoped to lay to rest the ancient slander of parasitism that Jews have always been tagged with. Not only would Jews have their own homeland, but they would no longer be living off the labour of others, they'd be paying their own way, doing their own manual labour, toiling in their own fields and shovelling their own sh..ditches.

    Trouble is, I'm not convinced that the claims of Israel functioning only via 'economic apartheid' in which non-Jews do most of the ditchy jobs, maybe even with an ethnic stratification of Jewish groups, are unfair. I'm not convinced even that the 'economic' prefix for apartheid is necessary.

    I'm concerned also that the massive aid to Israel from the US requires a similar level of partisan subversion of the media, congress and parties. Israel's military power so overwhelms it's neighbours that I feel the continued willingness to take the US Dollar is blatant greed.

    So Israel is not just keeping alive the parasite slander when it's all but dead in the rest of the world, it's endless grasping and the exploitation of Palestinians is actually justifying the claim. And because the US gives so much to Israel, the EU (me included) gives to the Palestinians.

    Somebody convince me I'm wrong, show me that;
    1) non-Jews don't do most of the ****** jobs in Israel
    2) Non-Jewish citizens aren't a second class
    3) there isn't bias in US media
    4) Jewish groups don't fund US politicians at obscene levels

    These are widespread beliefs and they appear to be backed up by quite a lot of evidence, if true they are also easily fixed.

    Israel can stand alone and start behaving like a modern democratic state, it just has to break with the politicians and policies which have brought it into so much worldwide disrepute.

    It has to rediscover the ideals of Zionism which most of us believe were once sincerely held, until then there will be no peace and Israel will remain a pariah.

    I look at Israel and see that the very ideals of Zionism, self sufficiency and overturning age-old prejudices are thwarted by the actions of their leaders. Am I wrong?
    For once, I do actually agree with you.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    For once, I do actually agree with you.
    I usually stick to the facts, my opinions I can usually support with links, your prejudices I cannot account for.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    I usually stick to the facts, my opinions I can usually support with links, your prejudices I cannot account for.
    I don't agree with your nationalistic leanings but each to his own...
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    I don't agree with your nationalistic leanings but each to his own...
    If I remember correctly you voted for integration - until you begin to agitate for integration of the rest of the world other than White nations, I'll hold to my view that your belief would simply blend out Whites, massive, unprecedented racial turmoil to follow. You can prove me wrong too...
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    If I remember correctly you voted for integration - until you begin to agitate for integration of the rest of the world other than White nations, I'll hold to my view that your belief would simply blend out Whites, massive, unprecedented racial turmoil to follow. You can prove me wrong too...
    Sorry? I do not subscribe my loyality to a piece of land or the colour of someone's skin.
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    Evidently, if you think people and their nationalities are so fungible that you are an Englishman, and it doesn't matter that White nations are to be blended out...
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Evidently, if you think people and their nationalities are so fungible that you are an Englishman, and it doesn't matter that White nations are to be blended out...
    So what if white people are blended out? What effect does that have on me anyway?
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    So what if white people are blended out? What effect does that have on me anyway?
    Already answerd kiddo, "until you begin to agitate for integration of the rest of the world other than White nations, I'll hold to my view that your belief would simply blend out Whites, massive, unprecedented racial turmoil to follow. You can prove me wrong too..."

    You're happy to lose Whites, what do you think will follow? Brotherhood? I'd bet on a race between Arabs, India, China and Japan to control Africa. Wave goodbye to Blacks too, cos nobody else is as sentimentally attached to them as Whites.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Already answerd kiddo, "until you begin to agitate for integration of the rest of the world other than White nations, I'll hold to my view that your belief would simply blend out Whites, massive, unprecedented racial turmoil to follow. You can prove me wrong too..."

    You're happy to lose Whites, what do you think will follow? Brotherhood? I'd bet on a race between Arabs, India, China and Japan to control Africa. Wave goodbye to Blacks too, cos nobody else is as sentimentally attached to them as Whites.
    As I say, I judge people on their actions and character, not what piece of land they were born on or what the colour of their skin is.

    When did I say I am "happy to lose whites"? Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was that if "colours" were integrated, I wouldn't really care.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    As I say, I judge people on their actions and character, not what piece of land they were born on or what the colour of their skin is.

    When did I say I am "happy to lose whites"? Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was that if "colours" were integrated, I wouldn't really care.
    OK, I quote, you don't mind if "White people are blended out", my question remains - what then? I would expect increased racial strife and genocide, why might I be wrong? And why just Whites? Argue that the rest should be blended out.

    We treat individuals with the same respect, I extend my respect to all groups, you extend it to some, are you racist?

    [You argue often for a Palestinian homeland, but reject the idea that White Nations should be allowed the same right, in fact you argue for Palestinian preservation and dismiss White genocide as meaningless].

    I could add that the implication of Bizzy's comments are similar.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    OK, I quote, you don't mind if "White people are blended out", my question remains - what then? I would expect increased racial strife and genocide, why might I be wrong? And why just Whites? Argue that the rest should be blended out.

    We treat individuals with the same respect, I extend my respect to all groups, you extend it to some, are you racist?

    [You argue often for a Palestinian homeland, but reject the idea that White Nations should be allowed the same right, in fact you argue for Palestinian preservation and dismiss White genocide as meaningless].

    I could add that the implication of Bizzy's comments are similar.
    I don't mind if anyone is blended out, white or otherwise. Again, you continue to put words in my mouth. YOU keep talking about whites. I couldn't care less about people with white skin or black skin or brown skin or yellow skin.

    Where Palestine and whites come into this I do not know. The Palestinians are a community, the whites are everyone from Western Russia to the US.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    I don't mind if anyone is blended out, white or otherwise. Again, you continue to put words in my mouth. YOU keep talking about whites. I couldn't care less about people with white skin or black skin or brown skin or yellow skin.

    Where Palestine and whites come into this I do not know. The Palestinians are a community, the whites are everyone from Western Russia to the US.
    You have made it very clear that you do not care that Whites are blended out, or about White nations maintaining their traditional homelands. You have also made it clear that you want to see a Palestinian homeland, and therefore the preservation of the various elements which make Palestinians a unique national ethnic group. My question is why you will not extend your consideration to White national ethnic groups? Are you racist?
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    You have made it very clear that you do not care that Whites are blended out, or about White nations maintaining their traditional homelands. You have also made it clear that you want to see a Palestinian homeland, and therefore the preservation of the various elements which make Palestinians a unique national ethnic group. My question is why you will not extend your consideration to White national ethnic groups? Are you racist?
    What don't you understand? You keep on putting words into my mouth. I do not care if anyone is blended in or out, because I believe in one race - the human race. What the colour of their skin is, is utterly irrelevant to me.

    White = colour of skin - people from Western Russia to the US. The whites aren't a nationality.
    Palestinians = a community. They aren't an ethnic group. They are a nation.

    I have argued for a Palestinian homeland because they deserve a homeland just as much as the Jews do, and the two state solution which will bring peace in the region.
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    What's a homeland for? Not to get blended out! To preserve your unique heritage.

    Why not White nations?

    You have no answer? You're racist then.
 
 
 

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