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    (Original post by Douglas)
    What kind of bullshlt is this? And exactly what are you implying??
    its the result of the gentlemens club that produces the mod team
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    LC01 came on and stated that this event proves that people should've listened to the BNP and Nick Griffin was right and all this ****. I was merely responding to that for exactly the reason you stated, why didn't you attack him for exploiting the issue and only me?
    I dunno, maybe I'm just a moody *******.

    We can round out the day maybe with Tomorrow2day's thoughtful post,

    It is horrific for those involved. The most coordinated terrorist attack in Britain of the last fifty years. The most terrible in nearly twenty years. It is, simply put, a tragedy.

    It is however my belief that Britain must remain strong in the face of this tragedy. That we must not let it prevent us from living our lives. We have an opportunity here to demonstrate that Britain will not bow to terrorism, nor will it allow terrorists to operate within its borders. We will find out who is responsible for today's crimes, we will find them, we will try them and we will sentence them. If we voluntarily sacrifice the liberties these people would take from us, they have won. If we allow their attacks to prevent us living our lives as we have always done, they have won. If we respond to these attacks by lashing out in retaliation, they have won. If we find those responsible, try them, sentence them, and forget them, they will never win.

    :congrats:
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    (Original post by technik)
    best remove all the irish. thats the IRA covered.

    perhaps the germans, italians, turks, japs, we know what their lot did in the war.
    No actually I think you have a point shock horror.

    Yes, lets deport the germans, they caused the war, lets deport the italians, turks, japs.

    If we didnt have there then we would be BRITISH not Multi-Ethnic, then we could safely call this counrty BRITAIN.

    They don't belong in our country permanently, they sponge off us. Are you happy too see all your taxes go on these non british people or would you rather it help people who are british, and so deserve it?
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Im afraid it very much is. Its not even related to anything I said on this thread. There was no reason to make that comment, it had nothing to do with the topic. Whatsmore, such an attack is completely and utterly false. Heres a personal comment of my own: Once again that finger gets itchy and before you know it youve shot your mouth off again. Insults, smears and more recently, indiscriminate warnings. Thankfully insults are met with punishment, and indiscriminate warnings are met with retractions. Justice is always done.
    smears, insults? what are you talkign about.

    Is anyone else other than your crones confused here?
    Take palestine. The israelis bulldoze the houses of families of bombers. THey bulldoze houses of innocent people in order to avoid taking the main street - as it is rife with snipers/bombs. Those are serious civil liberty infractions on the innocent people.
    Guantamo bay - another case of civil liberty infractions - the only reason they are not called so is because you um and arr about what rights they have. But lets face it, they are given less rights than an american, brit or whatever in jail.

    So lets now look at britain, or america. We have loads of civil liberties. God knows we have about as much as you can get. Now a backlash to this bombing and indeed 9/11 is people - like myself, saying 'i dont mind giving up some liberties - some rights to privacy, just so long as you make it that much harder for anything like this to happen again' you (and douglas judging by the profanity) do not feel the same. You would rather roll the dice and have as many liberties/privacy as possible.

    THat was all i was saying. Material breach made a post whereby he assumed you would disagree with weejimmie on the liberties point. However, when the liberties in question are ours, you will always fight for them. simple.

    i have made no insults, and no smears. IF i *have* then it is simply yourself being overly sensitive to criticism of your viewpoint.
    deal with it.
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    I dont actually think restrecting or limiting some civil liberties will stop anything, the most likely effect of doing so would be a stop of attacks in the short term however in the long run they will find ways around them.
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    (Original post by Lauren)
    are you in London right now? glad youre ok!
    yeh iw as working in the hospital (tommies) at the time. it was horrific, i'd never seen the results of a serious RTA before let alone a terrorist attack. not something i will forget, nor want to see again.
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    smears, insults? what are you talkign about.

    Is anyone else other than your crones confused here?
    Take palestine. The israelis bulldoze the houses of families of bombers. THey bulldoze houses of innocent people in order to avoid taking the main street - as it is rife with snipers/bombs. Those are serious civil liberty infractions on the innocent people.
    Guantamo bay - another case of civil liberty infractions - the only reason they are not called so is because you um and arr about what rights they have. But lets face it, they are given less rights than an american, brit or whatever in jail..
    The fundamental difference you fail to point out is that I believe unlawful combatants on the battlefield shouldnt have as many rights as those innocent people that died in the London Underground this morning. International convention agrees with me, and makes the same distinctions. You havent made a distinction which means either you dont see the difference between those in Gitmo and those who died at 9am this morning, or you do, but chose to ignore it to have another pointless off topic pop at me.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    The fundamental difference you fail to point out is that I believe unarmed combatants on the battlefield shouldnt have as many rights as those innocent people that died in the London Underground this morning. International convention agrees with me, and makes the same distinctions. You havent made a distinction which means either you dont see the difference between those in Gitmo and those who died at 9am this morning, or you do, but chose to ignore it to have another pointless off topic pop at me.
    if there is a flaw in my argument just say it straight off without making out this is a 'world vs vienna'/'pop at vienna'/smear/insult etc etc.
    I asked others to double check that i said nothing out of line, and the worst they could see was that 'then you don't care whatsoever' was 'bound to wind up'.

    lkets face it, this is D&D, this thread was bound to come around to the obvious question at some point - would identity cards - or better border/passport controls [both can be viewed as taking liberties] have prevented, reduced or delayed what occured today?
    is it selfish and perhaps naive of us to ferverently persue these liberties at (it seems) the cost of our lives, where we would deny similar liberties to those from other countries.

    i think its a perfectly valid direction to take the discussion.
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    (Original post by technik)
    its the result of the gentlemens club that produces the mod team
    Is that why foolfarian is now Mr. Jamie?
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    smears, insults? what are you talkign about.
    Do you want me to answer that Farian??
    Is anyone else other than your crones confused here?
    What cronies are you referring to?? Anyway, I doubt they're confused.
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    My heartfelt condolences go out to the British and all those affected by these tragedies. Was shocked to hear the news last night on the Chinese Government Media.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    My heartfelt condolences go out to the British and all those affected by these tragedies. Was shocked to hear the news last night on the Chinese Government Media.
    My thoughts are with the British and those personally affected Also came as a shock, waking up (Canada) to hear news of the attacks.
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    (Original post by juueru_chou)
    It will not at all since for any event there will always be heightened security and so, although these attacks were able to be carried out now, doesn;t mean that such a thing will be able to happen with the security that will come with the olympics.
    Seeing as Tony Blair has said, repeatedly over the last few years since 9/11, that London would be the target for terrorists attacks in the same way - it was not a question of if, but when - it seems as though that was an admission that there was nothing we could do to stop it if the terrorist was determined enough.

    And I agree with him!
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    This story is insignificant considering whats going on in the world. People are dying and what you read means nothing to their families pain. Its just what i feel and know. If you want to read, than read. If you don't than don't.

    You can never know a lot about this subject. What we do know is thats its bul**hit.

    I wont bring up september 11th as a symbol of anything, but the only reason that i wasnt amongst the masses of people walking over the bridge back to new jersey is because we have a ******y transit system and the train i was on broke down three stops prior to manhattan. But i saw the whole thing.

    The thing is, if it wasnt for the violence, they think we would still care. How many of us hate others...but not to the point of senseless murder. No one. We just dont care. Leave our lives and dreams and hopes alone. I would expect the same from other people using their minds as well. So what the fu*k are these people thinking?

    Its always the politics. These people who apparently represent us can give two shi**s or a fu*k about us. If it were our decision we would just tell these fuc**rs to leave us alone.

    I was born colombia. My uncles been shot in the head for going on a radio broadcast expressing his opinion on a mayor. I have parts of my family paying "vaccination" for protection from the same people they are paying.

    I'm moving to england in september and well I can really say nothing. I want to say things like: I'm sorry that George bush is a retarded momkey; or: the united states once meant something other than policing the world; or: inventors invented something other than killing.

    We can't say EVERYTHING about senseless acts until we've lossed our family in a senseless war. I've lost mine. And if you or someone you know have lost someone this past week, you have my sincerest apologies and blessing.

    The bottom line is the world is a place where people with feelings can lose everything. Those who have no feelings gain nothing. Moments like this make writers such as Voltaire so wrong in everyway; and its unfortunate that we live through this.

    Simply, its not the way to die. I'm deeply sorry and very pissed off for your lost, England.

    Habrazos,

    -Ricky
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Im afraid it very much is. Its not even related to anything I said on this thread. There was no reason to make that comment, it had nothing to do with the topic. Whatsmore, such an attack is completely and utterly false. Heres a personal comment of my own: Once again that finger gets itchy and before you know it youve shot your mouth off again. Insults, smears and more recently, indiscriminate warnings. Thankfully insults are met with punishment, and indiscriminate warnings are met with retractions. Justice is always done.
    This thread is bigger than any of us as individuals!
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    (Original post by Jamie)
    if there is a flaw in my argument just say it straight off without making out this is a 'world vs vienna'/'pop at vienna'/smear/insult etc etc.
    I asked others to double check that i said nothing out of line, and the worst they could see was that 'then you don't care whatsoever' was 'bound to wind up'.
    I said id straight off, but its worth assessing why its made, and why you made a flawed argument in direct reference to me and my convictions alone. You cannot use any argument, flawed or otherwise, to criticise my or anyone elses personal views and then expect them to not defend such character portrayal. Quite simply: stop smearing me personally and ill stop moaning about it.

    lkets face it, this is D&D, this thread was bound to come around to the obvious question at some point - would identity cards - or better border/passport controls [both can be viewed as taking liberties] have prevented, reduced or delayed what occured today?
    is it selfish and perhaps naive of us to ferverently persue these liberties at (it seems) the cost of our lives, where we would deny similar liberties to those from other countries.

    i think its a perfectly valid direction to take the discussion.
    Yes, without specific reference to me and my beliefs. Can you not see the difference? You asked others and they ("'then you don't care whatsoever") clearly could.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    The fundamental difference you fail to point out is that I believe unarmed combatants on the battlefield shouldnt have as many rights as those innocent people that died in the London Underground this morning.
    how do you decide who is "an unarmed combatant"? If you are fighting people who are using noncombatants as concealment or might be noncombatants at one moment and fighters the next, then it is very easy to kill real noncombatants while you do so. As one of the most important aspects of fighting such a war is to divide fighters and noncombatants it is a mistake as well as a crime to do so.
    ... You havent made a distinction which means either you dont see the difference between those in Gitmo and those who died at 9am this morning,
    People are lumping together several things here. Ironically, from the view of the bombers, the people who died in London were combatants. By working in or visiting London they were contributing to the british economy which- in their eyes- oppresses innocent muslims. One of their aims is to make people- nonmuslims and muslims- accept their definition of islamic ideology. For that very reason we must distinguish between people who are muslims and who do not follow the logic of their beliefs that far and the ones who accept their definition and follow it logically to acts of terror.
    The people in Guantamo are a random mixture: murderous fanatics and ignorant bigots, but damned fools, nosey idiots, would-be humanitarians and people with enemies who saw the chance to get rid of them as well. I think the way they were arrested and the way they have been treated- and even more so those people who have been "rendered" to countries with no compunction about using torture- are disgraces to the USA. However, the two matters are separate. there is no reason to think that random trawling among muslims and a general suspicion will do any good. It is the ordinary muslims- and especially the ones who are nearest in belief to the murderers but who have not swallowed their logic and who they are most likely to try to recruit or confide in- who are best-placed to find the killers. It would not only be wrong but counter-productive to engage in general sweeps and hunts.
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    noway police can be everywhere; i think people around the bombers should be more vigilant and pick up on abnormal behaviour and act on their own accord...eg...that bus bomber, it it truly was a suicide one could have been stoped by the peopps on the bus by pinning him down and calling the police.

    just a thought, but more logical than screening everyone and the sort.
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    (Original post by Phil23)
    noway police can be everywhere; i think people around the bombers should be more vigilant and pick up on abnormal behaviour and act on their own accord...eg...that bus bomber, it it truly was a suicide one could have been stoped by the peopps on the bus by pinning him down and calling the police.
    .
    You make it sound so easy...
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    (Original post by Phil23)
    noway police can be everywhere; i think people around the bombers should be more vigilant and pick up on abnormal behaviour and act on their own accord...eg...that bus bomber, it it truly was a suicide one could have been stoped by the peopps on the bus by pinning him down and calling the police.

    just a thought, but more logical than screening everyone and the sort.
    Yes, that would clearly stop him detonating himself :rolleyes:
 
 
 

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