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    She obviously could have worded it better, but i imagine she is referring to Western, 21st century terrorism, and it is unfortunately the case in most instances...
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    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    She obviously could have worded it better, but i imagine she is referring to Western, 21st century terrorism, and it is unfortunately the case in most instances...
    ETA?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4080512.stm
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    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    She obviously could have worded it better, but i imagine she is referring to Western, 21st century terrorism, and it is unfortunately the case in most instances...
    Its hardly going to help the cause. If anything, its going to make us even more vunerable.
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    Vienna said:
    Im offended by neither. The latter shows no deliberate malice. The former clearly does. If you feel strongly about ST's comments, im sure you would get much greater support, more own included, if you discredited them with good argument.
    The fact is that just becasue a few Islamic extremists might have chosen to bomb the London transport system, this certainly does not mean that every Muslim is to blame and that we should deport everyone who happens to be a Muslim. Most Islamic leaders have publically condemned the bombings and most Muslims in the UK are as disgusted by the activities of these terrorists as anyone else. As I have said before should we have deported all Catholics from the UK just because a Catholic bombed London some years back? No.

    I find it strange that you feel that the word 'moron' shows more malice than the bigoted statements made by Straight Talker. I think that the threat of mass deportations of Muslims, many of whom are and rightly consider themselves completely British, is much more damaging and insulting to people than the use of the word moron. Once again I suggest you get your priorities in place. Maybe if you were concerned with the actual issues rather than words like 'moron' you might be more respected by me and others on this forum.
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    (Original post by MMA)
    Vienna said:


    The fact is that just becasue a few Islamic extremists might have chosen to bomb the London transport system, this certainly does not mean that every Muslim is to blame and that we should deport everyone who happens to be a Muslim. Most Islamic leaders have publically condemned the bombings and most Muslims in the UK are as disgusted by the activities of these terrorists as anyone else. As I have said before should we have deported all Catholics from the UK just because a Catholic bombed London some years back? No.
    You seem to believe that because I advocate free speech and the right for ST to give his/her opinion I somehow agree with their opinion. Thats irrelevant.

    I find it strange that you feel that the word 'moron' shows more malice than the bigoted statements made by Straight Talker. I think that the threat of mass deportations of Muslims, many of whom are and rightly consider themselves completely British, is much more damaging and insulting to people than the use of the word moron. Once again I suggest you get your priorities in place.
    Bigoted opinions are ones that need to be discredited. Insults do nothing more than lower the standard of debate and discredit those offering them.


    Maybe if you were concerned with the actual issues rather than words like 'moron' you might be more respected by me and others on this forum.
    Again, you cant make a post without a personal remark it seems.
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    She is speaking to an American audience, national seperatist groups are not international terrorist organisations.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    She is speaking to an American audience, national seperatist groups are not international terrorist organisations.
    Fair enough then.. I suppose it is quite difficult to counter that argument then.
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    (Original post by Prad)
    Fair enough then.. I suppose it is quite difficult to counter that argument then.
    Not ALL terrorists are muslims, but in the context of the war on terror, this problem we face is Islamic terrorism which is clearly distinguishable from the likes of the IRA or ETA.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Its hardly going to help the cause. If anything, its going to make us even more vunerable.
    Sorry Zaf, if there's 'them' and 'us' we're all vulnerable, especially when an 'us' goes to live among a 'them' and behave as your 'us' do.

    Rather tasteless for you to be whingeing about Muslim vulnerability?
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Not ALL terrorists are muslims, but in the context of the war on terror, this problem we face is Islamic terrorism which is clearly distinguishable from the likes of the IRA or ETA.
    Good point, Vienna.

    For the benefit of other members I am posting a link that very succinctly, illustrates the differences. Bear in mind however that the contributions to the site come from all sorts of people so may be subject to personal bias.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separatist

    Read all through the link Speleo and see that separatism does not include the SNP!
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    Wikipedia is usually very neutral, it's one of their standards for posting, and posts are continually checked for infringements such as bias.

    However, I'd argue that the IRA were separatists and terrorists, while the scottish national party etc. are just separatists.
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    (Original post by Speleo)

    However, I'd argue that the IRA were separatists and terrorists, while the scottish national party etc. are just separatists.
    Why's that? What is the difference between the IRA and ETA or the Basque Separatists - apart from the impact they have on us in this country?

    I'm not considering the SNP as they have no similarity to the other groups around the world who demand self-determination by physical means because they don't have political means to achieve their aims.
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    Why's that? What is the difference between the IRA and ETA or the Basque Separatists - apart from the impact they have on us in this country?

    I'm not considering the SNP as they have no similarity to the other groups around the world who demand self-determination by physical means because they don't have political means to achieve their aims.
    OK, simple line, if you kill or threaten to kill innocent people to achieve your aims, you are a terrorist. If you are a political group advocating separation, you are a separatist. The IRA are clearly both, the SNP are clearly only the latter. You can't just ignore any part of the article which mentions peaceful separatists.

    The ETA and Basque separatists are also terrorists, I thought that was implied.
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    (Original post by Speleo)
    However, I'd argue that the IRA were separatists and terrorists, while the scottish national party etc. are just separatists.
    I don't think you can really compare the IRA and the SNP..
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    I don't think you can really compare the IRA and the SNP..
    You can when someone just posted an article doing it.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Sorry Zaf, if there's 'them' and 'us' we're all vulnerable, especially when an 'us' goes to live among a 'them' and behave as your 'us' do.

    Rather tasteless for you to be whingeing about Muslim vulnerability?
    :confused:
    I was referring to British vunerability
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    :confused:
    I was referring to British vunerability
    I was referring to you being one of 'them' whether you like it or not. Real world.

    I'm touched tho' that your concern is for all Britons, most of the worries about the vunerable expressed in the last 48 hours have perversely been concern for Muslims.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    I was referring to you being one of 'them' whether you like it or not. Real world.

    I'm touched tho' that your concern is for all Britons, most of the worries about the vunerable expressed in the last 48 hours have perversely been concern for Muslims.
    As a Briton, I would be concerned for all Britons.

    As for your notion of me being one of 'them', you are free to believe what you choose. Doesn't change the facts though.
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    Vienna said:
    Bigoted opinions are ones that need to be discredited. Insults do nothing more than lower the standard of debate and discredit those offering them.
    I have tried to discredit those opinions, unlike you I should say. Even if I was wrong to add in some minor personal insults.
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    (Original post by MMA)
    Even if I was wrong to add in some minor personal insults.
    Well Im glad you acknowledge that.
 
 
 

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