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Blaming Muslims (merged with muslim, terror and reality) watch

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    (Original post by homoterror)
    Saying things like this sounds nice but it really doesn't stand up for a moment. Anybody can read the bible/qur'an, and enjoy entire chapters describing bloodbaths, plagues, damnings. Look at what we're told about hell? How violent is that!
    Okay then.....point conceded, but, nowadays religions like to push that away and pretend it never existed such as Christianity now which seems to leave out a large proportion of the Old testament... so really, in the present day, religions don't tend to pay any attention to the parts of their religion which have advocated violence. Certainly no religion more than another. It's like saying any terrorist is attacking because of their religion, whatever their religion may be. They're not really....it's just a cover up for their brutality! IMO, anyway.

    It's views like that in the OP which would end up with chaos if everyone thought it were true. I dread to imagine what kind of riots there would be...
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    (Original post by shortysally)
    Okay then.....point conceded, but, nowadays religions like to push that away and pretend it never existed such as Christianity now which seems to leave out a large proportion of the Old testament... so really, in the present day, religions don't tend to pay any attention to the parts of their religion which have advocated violence. Certainly no religion more than another. It's like saying any terrorist is attacking because of their religion, whatever their religion may be. They're not really....it's just a cover up for their brutality! IMO, anyway.

    It's views like that in the OP which would end up with chaos if everyone thought it were true. I dread to imagine what kind of riots there would be...
    The big difference with Islam though is that unlike the Old Testament which can be fairly easily disregarded as "out of date," you can't pick and choose with the Qur'an, it's written in a different style, and Muslims believe it's the explicit unaltered word of god, you're not a Muslim if you don't submit.
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    (Original post by homoterror)
    The big difference with Islam though is that unlike the Old Testament which can be fairly easily disregarded as "out of date," you can't pick and choose with the Qur'an, it's written in a different style, and Muslims believe it's the explicit unaltered word of god, you're not a Muslim if you don't submit.

    All the same, I find it hard to believe that all or even a majority of Muslims believe that the terrorist attacks were right?

    Does this mean the British Muslim Council aren't actually Muslim? :confused:

    Religion moves on, right?! And I must admit I haven't read the Qu'ran, would anyone be able to tell me where exactly it says that Muslims must kill innocent people?! :confused:

    I'm reasonably open minded btw, so if anyone actually can come up with anything like this, I'd be happy to rethink some of what I've said.. :confused: I'm genuinely confused now...
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    (Original post by shortysally)
    All the same, I find it hard to believe that all or even a majority of Muslims believe that the terrorist attacks were right?

    Does this mean the British Muslim Council aren't actually Muslim? :confused:

    Religion moves on, right?! And I must admit I haven't read the Qu'ran, would anyone be able to tell me where exactly it says that Muslims must kill innocent people?! :confused:

    I'm reasonably open minded btw, so if anyone actually can come up with anything like this, I'd be happy to rethink some of what I've said.. :confused: I'm genuinely confused now...
    Read this, http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...2&postcount=47

    I think it's been said there far better than I can articulate. Personally the bits of the qur'an that I've read convince me that it is in fact just as outdated as the OT (for example). What concerns me is what I was saying earlier about the inability of Muslims to separate themselves from what is considered unacceptable these days.
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    unbelievable it's people like you that cause hatred amongst others! to call muslims nutters is bang out of order, and if islam was a corrupt why is there so many people converting to Islam?
    Furthermore it was Britain who needed people after the war, thats the only reason hindu's, sikh's, muslims e.tc settled here! If they had known what the Britain was goin to be like then they surely wouldn't have!
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    Hmm..

    Personally I'm still inclined to take my original view. None of the Muslims I know agree with anything Al Qaeda have done and I think it's kind of insulting to Muslims to suggest that they do.

    Surely it's only the ridiculous fundamentalists and extremists who "have an inability to seperate themselves from what is unacceptable these days", and not ordinary Muslims?
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    (Original post by shortysally)
    Hmm..

    Personally I'm still inclined to take my original view. None of the Muslims I know agree with anything Al Qaeda have done and I think it's kind of insulting to Muslims to suggest that they do.

    Surely it's only the ridiculous fundamentalists and extremists who "have an inability to seperate themselves from what is unacceptable these days", and not ordinary Muslims?
    I didn't say your friends agree with what was done. I'm saying I think the violent interpretation of the Qur'an is just if not more valid than one which chooses to ignore the violent bits. You cannot ignore the violent bits because Muslims believe that the Qur'an is god's unaltered word, and Islam demands total submission.
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    (Original post by homoterror)
    I didn't say your friends agree with what was done. I'm saying I think the violent interpretation of the Qur'an is just if not more valid than one which chooses to ignore the violent bits. You cannot ignore the violent bits because Muslims believe that the Qur'an is god's unaltered word, and Islam demands total submission.
    From what I know, the "violent" bits were for a specific time when muslims were being persecuted and not as a blanket statement for terrorism.
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    (Original post by homoterror)
    I didn't say your friends agree with what was done. I'm saying I think the violent interpretation of the Qur'an is just if not more valid than one which chooses to ignore the violent bits. You cannot ignore the violent bits because Muslims believe that the Qur'an is god's unaltered word, and Islam demands total submission.
    I know you didn't

    Hmm....I understand what you're saying, but I think a majority of Muslims, certainly those living in this country don't tend to act upon the violent bits. And I still aint seen anything which tells Muslims to kill innocent people in the Qu'ran!
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    (Original post by Speleo)
    D-
    See me after class.

    But on a more serious note, you are hugely stereotyping Muslims.
    its the truth
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    its the truth
    The implication that Muslims cannot function socially is false.
    The implication that all Muslims like terrorism is false.
    The implication that no-one likes Muslims is false.

    The only true part is the 'D-' bit; every time someone types like that part of me dies.
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    i think this has thrown up a few interesting points. it is somewhat true that there are certain "muslim" areas. but i disagree that it is purely by choice. often these areas are economically deprived and it is probably the only places where they can afford to live.
    i strongly believe that foreign policy toward the middle east is the cause of terrorism. sure terrorism is wrong and can't be excused, but to think that by "hunting down" the extremists we will rid our world of terrorism, is incredibly naive. injustices in the muslim world feeds these extremists and makes it very easy for them to manipulate young, poor and helpless muslims who have nowhere else to turn. watching the news i was a bit surprised to hear people, english people, say that they thought attacks on london were inevitable since the invasion of iraq. as for those who say that our way of life will not be changed, i think they're missing the point, foreign policy for instance the war in iraq and support for israel leaves muslims deeply discontented and creates a breeding ground for terrorism, that gives them a "reason" to attack britain,spain, etc because they feel that their poverty has been caused and compounded as a result of western intervention.
    i also would say that to an extent the muslims who commit terrorist attacks have been brainwashed. they are led to believe that islam condones such indescriminate killing. they are told that they'll goto heaven for it. this is not islamic, rather extremists using their misguided interpretation of islam to condone killing and further their own political ends.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    From what I know, the "violent" bits were for a specific time when muslims were being persecuted and not as a blanket statement for terrorism.
    Even when referring to specific battles though, I don't see how you could read the instructions to Muslims and then say that religions don't advocate violence.
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    (Original post by shortysally)
    I know you didn't

    Hmm....I understand what you're saying, but I think a majority of Muslims, certainly those living in this country don't tend to act upon the violent bits. And I still aint seen anything which tells Muslims to kill innocent people in the Qu'ran!
    I don't think they intend to act on the violent bits, I just think alot of people go around saying "Islam is a peaceful religion, it doesn't allow any such killing, it is completely misinterpreted." I think in the interest of truth, people who say this should at least read the qur'an and make their own mind up.

    I could get into quotations but that will spark an entire debate about arabic translation which I frankly don't have the knowledge to continue, there's literally hundreds of threads though on this forum, hundreds of pages long where you can read about various bits of the qur'an and what they mean, with many viewpoints represented.
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    (Original post by Masonne)
    thank you!! excellent post. such a perception is orientalist and has been a standard response in the west when discussing islam for many many decades, even centruries. IT is simply ignorant and shows a lack of understandning of the diversity of the religion, the region it is dominant in and the people who consider themselves muslims.
    However, each version of islam has much more in common with other versions of islam than the different varieties of christianity do with one another and they all have in common the assumption of the absolute or near absolute inerrancy of the koran and a high degree of confidence in some hadith.
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    Thanks homoterror....this thread does contain some very interesting points and since I don't understand Islam or the Qu'ran very well I'm not informed enough to debate about any of it either. I will say this though: in my opinion those who have firebombed mosques in the past few days, in retaliation for the London attacks, and those who are blaming Islam for the terrorism are IMO just as bad as those who actually carried out the London terrorist attacks. In the same way that there is no excuse for terrorism, there is also no excuse for any kind of unprovoked violence. Although I'm pretty sure that no one on here would ever do anything of the sort, I think it would be hasty and wrong of anyone to jump to the conclusion of blaming Islam.

    I think it's pretty sad what's happened and could well cause tension within communities in the country with large Muslim populations, such as my home city Bradford where there have been race riots in the past. I hope there won't be a repeat of that.
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    (Original post by LC01)
    It has more to do with the fact they they bomb us.
    all of them both you? or just the minority?

    Well I understand it, after reading a few quotes from the koran
    why dont you read the whole thing and then judge it? bit ignorant to take your pick and make a judgement of the whole thing isnt it?
    Yeah so do I, mainly becuase multi-culture societies are less stable.
    only because it seems people like you stir up more hatred... so yea understandable...

    They isolate themselves, they choose to live in all muslim areas.
    is it wrong of them to makes circles of friends and family with people who are similar to them?
    or should they come and try and befriend you while you shout abuse to them?..
    i bet you've never tried to make friends or break the ice with any of them..
    theyre probably more paranoid of you than you are of them... white violence + being out numbered is always scary.

    Its the ones that have been muslims their whole lives that are the nutters, not the converts.
    would you care to not make such a stereotypical comment without some facts/figures? atleast back your argument a little

    well its going to get worse and worse as we let more of them in the country.
    surely its going to get worse if more people like you preach hatred?
    im sure they dont come into the country just to make this situation just worse and worse for you... i mean obviously they're exsistence must revolve around you...
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    (Original post by LC01)
    It has more to do with the fact they they bomb us.

    No one really belives that the germans are still nazis, but it was right to tarnish them back then.
    Well I understand it, after reading a few quotes from the koran

    Yeah so do I, mainly becuase multi-culture societies are less stable.

    Over my dead body
    They isolate themselves, they choose to live in all muslim areas.
    Thats been happening for thousends of years.

    agreed

    Its the ones that have been muslims their whole lives that are the nutters, not the converts.

    As I said before they isolate themselves

    Thats because they are brainwashed muslims.
    well its going to get worse and worse as we let more of them in the country.

    hope they get well soon

    This is one of the most stupid posts i've read in a long time. Talk about closed minded you sound like someone that hasn't got a clue about this world we live in. Muslims are not brainwashed, their may be a few people that do weird things and put themselves under the banner of islam but thats a minority.

    And its more the people that have been muslim for their whole lives that have a proper understanding of islam, so would be more level headed that do there religion pride, the converts more have this trumped up vision of islam that come out, to use your words "nutters" and like i said before they are the minority.

    You have no idea what your talking about, but think that you have the right to talk so badly about another religion.

    Well I understand it, after reading a few quotes from the koran
    This just shows doesn't it? :rolleyes:
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    The morning after the terror attacks, I heard a muslim woman speaking on the radio. She was in tears, it almost made me cry myself listening to what she had experienced. Firstly, a cab driver had told her to 'get the **** out of my cab, I don't want no ******* muslim terrorists in here'.
    On top of that, her 6 year old daughter had told her mother that she didn't want to be a Muslim anymore because 'everyone hates us'.
    She said that she was too scared to answer the door that day for fear of racial abuse.

    Muslim Londoners are no different to the rest of us.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    The morning after the terror attacks, I heard a muslim woman speaking on the radio. She was in tears, it almost made me cry myself listening to what she had experienced. Firstly, a cab driver had told her to 'get the **** out of my cab, I don't want no ******* muslim terrorists in here'.
    On top of that, her 6 year old daughter had told her mother that she didn't want to be a Muslim anymore because 'everyone hates us'.
    She said that she was too scared to answer the door that day for fear of racial abuse.

    Muslim Londoners are no different to the rest of us.
    That's sickening. These terror attacks really bring the closet racists out.
 
 
 

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