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    people categorically dont like things rammed down your throat - even though i agree with some points greenpeace make.etc. i dont support them because i dont think the best way to gain support is to insist people agree with you - let people make their own decisions and you will be more succesful.
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    biker23 said:
    people categorically dont like things rammed down your throat - even though i agree with some points greenpeace make.etc. i dont support them because i dont think the best way to gain support is to insist people agree with you - let people make their own decisions and you will be more succesful.
    The problem is that if SPEAK did not campaign then it is very likely that the animal testing lab would have gone ahead with little opposition. SPEAK is trying to raise awareness about an issue that the students and general public probably have not really thought too much about or know much about. They are doing this in the traditional way ie: protesting. They are not directly involved in criminal activity and have conducted numerous peaceful protests.

    By ignoring the issue we would be forced to accept the views of the pharmaceutical companies who are so desperate for the research lab to go ahead. This is because the decision to build the lab was made without consultation with the students or public. Keep it in mind that I am not a SPEAK member or a member of any animal rights group- I just support any legitimate group that peacefully protests against the lab because I disagree with it on ethical grounds.
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    Sadly it is not the case that all of these protests occur peacefully - an example i give is someone who dug up the remains of a construction workers parents from their graves...i hardly call that law abiding and peaceful.
    Also, claiming people who attend the best university in the country would adopt the views of pharmaceutical companies without question is ridiculous - they are amongst the most politically motivated students in the country, and would think greatly about this.
    If SPEAK had always used peaceful protest, then you would not have to be guarded by police officers outside the labs - it may be a minority, but if you cannot control the people campaigning with you, it is not a peaceful protest.
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    MMA - I think the specific objection to SPEAK is that those someone (I forget who, sorry, but it's earlier in the thread) spoke to refused to condemn the arson attack of a few weeks ago.
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    bikerx23 said:
    Sadly it is not the case that all of these protests occur peacefully - an example i give is someone who dug up the remains of a construction workers parents from their graves...i hardly call that law abiding and peaceful.
    Also, claiming people who attend the best university in the country would adopt the views of pharmaceutical companies without question is ridiculous - they are amongst the most politically motivated students in the country, and would think greatly about this.
    I am sure that those incidents relating to the construction workers were not directly linked to SPEAK. You cannot dismiss an entire organisation based on the actions of a few. The majority of protesters are peaceful and law-abiding. You would find this out by going to see any of the major protests.
    I would also like to point out that Oxford University had already given the go ahead for the lab with little debate or discussion. There was little protest from the so-called 'politically-active' students at Oxford.

    RxB said:
    MMA - I think the specific objection to SPEAK is that those someone (I forget who, sorry, but it's earlier in the thread) spoke to refused to condemn the arson attack of a few weeks ago.
    This is really getting away from the issue regarding whether the animal lab is right or wrong. Most legitimate protesters would condemn the arson attacks, physical attacks or any illegal activity. But in this increasing climate of the government making protests more difficult by introducing exclusion zones etc it is driving some people to commit these crimes. I wish these people would protest in a decent and civilized way but you cannot label the entire movement as criminals and terrorists based on the actions of a few. It would also be interesting to hear people's opinions on whether thay thought he lab was right or wrong?
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    there was significant debate and discussion from the tutors, and also have you thought that there is not a significant following for the SPEAK cause in the uni? maybe people have a better understanding of why we need to follow this form of research.
    Also - i have had to cycle past your demonstrations every time they have occured since i arrived at oxford, and one of the protestors attempted to fetch me off my bike as i cycled past - this has lost me any sympathy i once had.
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    (Original post by MMA)
    It would also be interesting to hear people's opinions on whether thay thought he lab was right or wrong?
    right.

    (but obviously i just think that because the uni have subliminally told me i should think that, rather than perhaps being in a position, as biker says, of understanding why we need this research.. )
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    lol @ the title of this thread.
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    Weak.
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    thas what all that stuff at matriculation was...wasn't actually latin, it was subliminal messaging jedi mind trickery...didn't you hear the bits in the middle "you must abuse all animals" and "yes, love bikes" (worked on me....)
    coincidentally, i also believe animal testing is right.
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    You're right, someone has to stand up for the weak. Who cares about your little boathouse. You think a boathouse is more important than lives of any kind?
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    Sly: You're a truly terrible troll. You try to wind others up, but all you achieve is looking like a fool, getting angry yourself when people easily refute your ridiculous posts, and, possibly self-induced arm injuries.

    Just give up. Or at least watch some better trolls and try to improve your techinque.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    Sly: You're a truly terrible troll. You try to wind others up, but all you achieve is looking like a fool, getting angry yourself when people easily refute your ridiculous posts, and, possibly self-induced arm injuries.

    Just give up. Or at least watch some better trolls and try to improve your techinque.
    Ok, who the hell uses that word. Certainly not Americans. A troll is a mythical creature, used in storytelling.

    I'm not trying to rile anyone up right now; I just find this thread ridiculous. Who cares about some stupid boathouse.

    If only you were good enough at debating and/or "trolling," I could learn from you. But you're not, so forget that.
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    I agree as a role model for trolling I'm useless. I don't know any good trolls on here mind...just not got my ear down to the ground.

    And if you're serious, that's just worrying. If you think it's justifiable to burn $10,000's worth of private property just because it has a very tenous link to some people who pissed you while acting in an entirely law abiding manner, I suggest you stay away from matches.
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    the thing about the boathouses is that they are private property owned by the boatclubs, so therefore it is not university property.
    Therefore, people wanting to send a point to the university wont have an effect by damaging property that does not effect them - therefore since this needs to be funded externally it matters a lot.
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    Correct me if I am wrong- but aren't most medicines tested on animals first?
    So, does the animal right activists refrain from taking any medicines?
    I personally feel that it was pointless for the activists to target the boathouse. They have only succeeded in alienating people who might have supported them in their cause.
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    (Original post by H&E)
    I agree as a role model for trolling I'm useless. I don't know any good trolls on here mind...just not got my ear down to the ground.

    And if you're serious, that's just worrying. If you think it's justifiable to burn $10,000's worth of private property just because it has a very tenous link to some people who pissed you while acting in an entirely law abiding manner, I suggest you stay away from matches.
    Well, I think the most detrimental aspect of burning the boathouse is undeniably how they have to cut down more trees to build new boats, etc.

    I wouldn't personally commit illegal acts; but these animal rights activists at least are trying to make themselves known; plus they didnt kill anyone. It's just sad that they have to kill more trees now

    But hey, I would rather sue a pharmaceutical company who is testing on animals producing what I think is a worthless medication (there are many meds who treat questionable "diseases"=some psychological ones like depression), because then it would be law-abiding and have a longer-lasting effect.
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    (Original post by SlyPie)
    Well, I think the most detrimental aspect of burning the boathouse is undeniably how they have to cut down more trees to build new boats, etc.

    I wouldn't personally commit illegal acts; but these animal rights activists at least are trying to make themselves known; plus they didnt kill anyone. It's just sad that they have to kill more trees now

    But hey, I would rather sue a pharmaceutical company who is testing on animals producing what I think is a worthless medication (there are many meds who treat questionable "diseases"=some psychological ones like depression), because then it would be law-abiding and have a longer-lasting effect.
    there are many meds who treat questionable "diseases"=some psychological ones like depression
    A regular Tom Cruise, eh?
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    (Original post by zoraster)
    A regular Tom Cruise, eh?
    Hah, I wish I were that rich.

    But seriously, if you're tired you have a disorder; if you're too active you have ADD; if you're sad you have a disease; if you're too happy you're bipolar.

    This world is just medicine crazy. Most of these "diseased" people just need mental/emotional assistance, not meds.
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    I'm sure your degree in neuroscience will verify this.

    Wait...
 
 
 

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