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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Britain will not necessarily fight for my country if it was ever attacked, nor does it contribute towards my country's economic well-being. I do not get to vote in Britain's elections, and I am not able to influence its economic and political systems. If it doesn't have my loyalty, nor does it have an obligation towards me, why should I consider it as highly as my own country?
    I didnt ask you (it was directed at the other poster) that nor did the question require you to answer who would you fight for..
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Tell that to Mr.Bush..
    President come and go. America will remain for centuries to come.

    So you do agree then that the Iraqis who are fighting the US forces are doing the right thing?
    The choice for them is either no Iraqi deaths and no American deaths, and a lot of Iraqi deaths and a lot of American deaths. I can't see the benefit to Iraqis of sacrificing their own lives for naught.

    (Original post by Alexdel)
    I didnt ask you (it was directed at the other poster) that nor did the question require you to answer who would you fight for..
    If you don't value the life of your countrymen more than of other people, why would you possible fight for your country?
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    Iraqis who are purely fighting coalition forces, yes, they are doing the right thing as would anyone who presumed that a force was invading their homeland. Those who are killing and maiming construction workers, iraqi civilians and iraqi authorities, no. They are doing the wrong thing and in time this will show. As the public become more and more disenchanted with the civilian casualties from suicide bombings, so their attention will turn to stopping it. Its reasonably accepted that for an insurgency to work the population must be complicit in its conduct. As the insurgency distances itself from the people it is supposed to be fighting for, they will turn. Handing over information freely to coalition forces.
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    (Original post by halloweenjack)
    Iraqis who are purely fighting coalition forces, yes, they are doing the right thing as would anyone who presumed that a force was invading their homeland. Those who are killing and maiming construction workers, iraqi civilians and iraqi authorities, no. They are doing the wrong thing and in time this will show. As the public become more and more disenchanted with the civilian casualties from suicide bombings, so their attention will turn to stopping it. Its reasonably accepted that for an insurgency to work the population must be complicit in its conduct. As the insurgency distances itself from the people it is supposed to be fighting for, they will turn. Handing over information freely to coalition forces.
    You two seem to answer each other's questions...I did quote for a reason you know..
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    President come and go. America will remain for centuries to come.



    The choice for them is either no Iraqi deaths and no American deaths, and a lot of Iraqi deaths and a lot of American deaths. I can't see the benefit to Iraqis of sacrificing their own lives for naught.



    If you don't value the life of your countrymen more than of other people, why would you possible fight for your country?
    You didnt asnwer the question though...You said that you expected people to defend their own country...so do you agree with the IRaqis fighting the US forces yes or no?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    You didnt asnwer the question though...You said that you expected people to defend their own country...so do you agree with the IRaqis fighting the US forces yes or no?
    That assumes that America wants to conquer Iraq. The fact is that if these morons weren't killing American troops, chances are, American troops would no longer be in Iraq.
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    As far as my feelings on the US lets put it this way. If it wasnt for Sept 11th 2001 i would probably be in some dead end job. Instead i have just finished my 2nd year of BA in war studies, which when completed will help me to gain the chance of employment in helping stop terrorist operations in this country.

    So yes, i do feel a bond to the US more so than the rest Europe.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    That assumes that America wants to conquer Iraq.
    So if an invasion army from CHina no matter what their final objective was invaded the US you would decide on whether they want to conquer you or just stay for some years?

    It's not difficult really...yes or no....
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So if an invasion army from CHina no matter what their final objective was invaded the US you would decide on whether they want to conquer you or just stay for some years?

    It's not difficult really...yes or no....
    If the purpose was to overthrow a tyrant who has violently quelled multiple rebellions against his rule? I'd probably support it if I was reasonably certain that the invaders would withdraw. Furthermore, once your country loses a war (as Iraq did after Hussein was captured), your social contract with your government is revoked and you no longer have to give up your life for your country (if this wasn't the case, we'd have eternal wars all over the world).
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    (Original post by halloweenjack)
    Alexdel are you trying to be obtuse? What he is saying is that those you feel some sort of cultural/social or ethnic bond with usually mean more to you than someone in a distant country that you have never met.
    Bizzy is a nationalist, caring more for those with whom he shares a c/s or e bond. Most people share this natural instinct, and are free to express it. Not gentile Whites tho'...
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    If the purpose was to overthrow a tyrant who has violently quelled multiple rebellions against his rule? I'd probably support it if I was reasonably certain that the invaders would withdraw. Furthermore, once your country loses a war (as Iraq did after Hussein was captured), your social contract with your government is revoked and you no longer have to give up your life for your country (if this wasn't the case, we'd have eternal wars all over the world).
    So who decides what consitutes a tyrant then? What if the same tyrant was supported and given weapons by the invading country years prior to the invasion? So in essence the country invading decides that he is a great person at one time but a tyrant the next. At the same time the people dont see him as a tyrant but as their leader..this argument could stem from any country being invaded not just Iraq and Saddam...

    So I ask you again do you support the resistance of the Iraqi people towards the american troops in Iraq? Yes or No...
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Bizzy is a nationalist, caring more for those with whom he shares a c/s or e bond. Most people share this natural instinct, and are free to express it. Not gentile Whites tho'...
    What has the white race ever done for you? Do you think most white people will defend your country whenever it is attacked? Do you think most white people will help your country if it becomes poor? Do you get to choose the government of most white people? Why does the white race deserve your loyalty?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So who decides what consitutes a tyrant then?
    You, the citizen of the attacked country, decide. I think the 5 million Iraqis who fled Iraq under Hussein's rule are as good as anyone else to know whether Hussein was a tyrant.

    So I ask you again do you support the resistance of the Iraqi people towards the american troops in Iraq? Yes or No...
    They're acting contrary to American and their own interests. Even if they were acting in their own interest (but against America's), I would obviously oppose the resistance.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    You, the citizen of the attacked country, decide. I think the 5 million Iraqis who fled Iraq under Hussein's rule are as good as anyone else to know whether Hussein was a tyrant.



    They're acting contrary to American and their own interests. Even if they were acting in their own interest (but against America's), I would obviously oppose the resistance.
    So you know what other people's interest are and you decide for them...nice system of democracy..
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So you know what other people's interest are and you decide for them...nice system of democracy..
    A vast majority of Iraqis voted for a government that opposes attacks against American troops.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Is that why Milosevic is being tried for war crimes? It remains a crime, regardless of whether or not the state sanctions it.
    Its only a crime if you lose.

    "If we lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals"
    --Gen. Curtis Lemay (WWII)

    "LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost, but what makes it immoral if you lose and not if you win?"
    --Robert S. McNamara (sec of defense WWII)
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    What has the white race ever done for you? Do you think most white people will defend your country whenever it is attacked? Do you think most white people will help your country if it becomes poor? Do you get to choose the government of most white people? Why does the white race deserve your loyalty?
    Haha! Point proven. Somebody who one moment defends the idea that people should identify with their own, spews forth a diatribe when someone asks if Whites too can express the same sentiment about their communities and nations.

    It's a problem to be sure....this anti-White racism.
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    (Original post by Kondar)
    Its only a crime if you lose.

    "If we lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals"
    --Gen. Curtis Lemay (WWII)

    "LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost, but what makes it immoral if you lose and not if you win?"
    --Robert S. McNamara (sec of defense WWII)
    McNamara was Sec. of Defense during Vietnam.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So you know what other people's interest are and you decide for them...nice system of democracy..
    Are you trying to trivialize the efferts over 8 million Iraqis, who risked their lives to vote?
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    k let me write a hypothetical scenario:

    China in year 2100 decides that Mr.George W W W W Bush. is a tyrant and is oppressing his own people. George W W W W Bush shares the exact same characteristic as the present president. Now China is not conquering the US but invading it for the best benefit of the US however some americans think that he is not insted he is giving them what they want, a strong country with strong morals. On the other hand we have another half of the population who thinks Mr.George W W W W Bush is indeed interfering with their freedom of speech, freedom of choice and freedom of privacy and therefore they support the invasion of the Chinese....

    So would you resist the Chinese army then yes or no?
 
 
 

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