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  • View Poll Results: liverpool vs west ham cup final vote for the winner
    west ham
    16
    39.02%
    liverpool
    25
    60.98%

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    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/t...r=2004&cc=5739 :rolleyes:
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    I'm disgusted. Gerrard and Joe Cole should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. I don't want to win the World Cup by diving.

    Well done to Peter Crouch, great goal and even better celebration. I'm digging the funky robot as well.
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    Well considering it was 11 against 10 for so long (well 12 against 10 really, with hargreaves playing for hungary), england did well.

    Hope sven will play carrick in the holding role against jamaica, to at least give him a go, and maybe try to buy those embarassing pictures off hargreaves, instead of playing him...
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    Yes but we all know Beattie and Phillips scored 30 goals in a season, it didnt make them good players though, and certainly not worth 8m. My point is more that compared to foreign players English ones are crazily overpriced. Take Kalou joining Chelsea, he is an excellent player and 4m or something like that, in England it would be 8. There is no incentive for teams like arsenal to bid for these players when they can get a better foreigner for less, so when people complain they dont have any english players it's the nature of the english market that prices relatively good players like johnson at such high prices.
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    Who's talking about Arsenal, Chelsea or Kalou? We're talking about an ex-Palace player, a new Everton signing and a bloody good player who's scored a lot of goals throughout his career. No ones mentioned foreign prices or any of that rubbish in this thread
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    (Original post by SuperCollin)
    Clearly you haven't been watching Everton for the past 10 years :P

    I was fuming at the price tag at first, but now he's here I'll back him 100%. Him and Beattie upfront next season, I'm getting excited about it already!

    Dan, that little box in your signature made me laugh so much! And it's so true
    You need to be given some rep just for being an Evertonian I think!
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    it was disappointing to see the formation didnt work out as well as expected..and on that basis, with owen needing someone to play off, and gerrard needing a bit more freedom to run, we should stick to 4 4 2, with crouch and owen up front, although carragher did well in the holding role
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    I'm disgusted. Gerrard and Joe Cole should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.
    Agreed.
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    im talking about them in relation to how expensive andy johnson is for a relatively mediocre player, he's scroed 20 goals in division 1, and I dont understand how that equates to 8.6m. I think he is probably worth 4, but just because he is english it's double, it's crazy
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    What's crazy to understand that English players nearly always go for more than they are realistically worth?
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    He scored 21 goals in the Premiership last year, is on the fringes of the international squad and has been capped. He is in exactly the same position as Jermaine Defoe, except Defoe has never scored as much as AJ and has played less matches than him, but if Defoe were to move somewhere he would cost upwards of £10m. Players like Cisse, Berbatov, Defoe, Reyes, Hleb all cost more than AJ. At some point you just have to accept that he didn't cost a lot because he's English, he cost a lot because he is class. £8m is not a lot for an international who scored upwards of 20 goals in the top flight. If Van Nistelrooy, who scored 21 goals this season, was 25 like AJ he'd cost upwards of £15-£20m.
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    I had to leg it back to catch the last half hour, as I'd been in London for the day. Just a few things that I picked up, from what I watched:

    • The pundits were all brown nosing J Cole. He had a decent game from what I saw, yes, but he never looked for the pass to the outflanking player. Against decent teams he'd have been roasted. Hats off for being a plucky **** and going for it though, he clearly has skill.
    • The DM role is a glaring problem. Carra'll give you 100% for 90 mins + another 30 in whatever position, but... why play him there? The game should be played in front of him. I mean, he did the job, but he offers little going forward (surprisingly). Seemed to do alright at full back, but again... why? I'd feel a lot safer playing him alongside Terry - the two with the most defensive organisational and leadership sense - with a proper DM in front of them, if possible. I suppose nothing got past him, which is more than we can say for Hargreaves.
    • Carrick. What are we going to do with him? His distribution was woeful the other night, but he's done a decent enough job for Spurs. Tbh, it's all lovely yous lot calling for him to play, but he doesn't have the tenacity or tackling to play in that role in that system. He's a deep lying playmaker, in my mind; more Pirlo than Makalele. In this 4-1-4-1, you need to be mobile, have positional sense, close down and make the tackle, lay it off simply. Maka or Didi he ain't, and isn't half the player of either.
    • Is Hargreaves the new Phil Neville?
    • Some of the passing was weak, especially from the two players down the left. Didn't help that Campbell is fairly inept, and should rightly be down the pecking order.
    • I hope that Crouch is now proving the doubters wrong. He adds another dimension to the team, and played some neat touches. There are clearly parts of his game that need work on, though. The goal was, dare I say it, Fowler-esque? At least his little dance provided the moment of the night.
    • Yes, I suppose Gerrard did go down easily. But he always has known how to draw the foul in the right areas (i.e. the penalty box). He hasn't quite perfected the Hamman-flop' technique, mind.
    • Old Trafford seemed fairly dire. But then, I already knew that.


    That'll do for now.
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    (Original post by asanonymous)
    it was disappointing to see the formation didnt work out as well as expected..and on that basis, with owen needing someone to play off, and gerrard needing a bit more freedom to run, we should stick to 4 4 2, with crouch and owen up front, although carragher did well in the holding role
    To be honest.. the formation didnt look like it worked because Hungary just sat behind the ball (everyone including them knew that England have more class than them.. so were just trying to counter attack)
    When countries sit back like that, i would say Crouch is the guy to play - he can get in amongst the defenders, his height makes it difficult and he can them bring in the midfielders.. whereas Owen doesnt have the height nor the strength to do it...
    On top of that, more crosses would be easier to Crouch from either left or right too..

    On the other hand if England are sitting back and counter attacking... Owen + attacking midfielders = :p: :p:
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    Get in there crouchy lad.
    Not happy about Gerrard dive though, although im glad he never got touched cos that was a nasty tackle.
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    (Original post by Rainy)

    • Yes, I suppose Gerrard did go down easily. But he always has known how to draw the foul in the right areas (i.e. the penalty box). He hasn't quite perfected the Hamman-flop' technique, mind.
    • Old Trafford seemed fairly dire. But then, I already knew that.

    He didn't draw the foul, he created it. The guy didn't touch him but he went down doing his best Drogba impersonation. Not only was there no need to do it because he was passed the player and could have had a shot, it was completely unnecessary anyway because it was a friendly. We're not Argentina, we shouldn't be diving like them.

    And England matches always have a crap atmosphere because only the prawn sandwich brigade can afford the tickets. None of those chumps who bring their kids will be seen away at Bournemouth next season. At most they'll make a few trips to the hospitality boxes at Stamford Bridge. they aren't the real football fans.
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    (Original post by Rainy)
    The DM role is a glaring problem. Carra'll give you 100% for 90 mins + another 30 in whatever position, but... why play him there? The game should be played in front of him. I mean, he did the job, but he offers little going forward (surprisingly). Seemed to do alright at full back, but again... why? I'd feel a lot safer playing him alongside Terry - the two with the most defensive organisational and leadership sense - with a proper DM in front of them, if possible. I suppose nothing got past him, which is more than we can say for Hargreaves.
    Its easy to say that against opposition like hungary, but against top quality sides, a player like that is needed, i think, especially while englands attacking options are more limited. playing a holding player, allowing both gerrard and lampard to get forward, is potentially a really good idea, its just finding the right player for the role that is hard. I mean King would be the best choice, but as that isn't possible right now, I'd say try Ferdinand in the role. He has the ball skills, and passing ability to play in that role i think, and its better to bring a player forward, than to take one back in this instance, though i still do think Carrick is better for the role (and is a better player than you give him credit for)
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    If only Scott Parker was fit.....Who am I kidding, even if he was Sven wouldn't do the right thing and give him a chance
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    yup, Gerrard created the foul by skipping the first tackle but lost control of the ball and so ran into the other defender to try and get the penalty. It was a dive, simple as.
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    Few things i noticed just watching the game..
    • Peter Crouch played well again when he came on, proved the key to unlocking the defense by becoming very hard to mark unlike the little man. Great turn and finish, after a good run to anticipate joe cole. Even better finish.
    • Walcott was unispiring, 1 sprint down the wing and a cross that didnt even reach crouch was his return for the whole game.
    • Gerrard actually had a half decent game, forget the dive he was doing what he does best and drawing fouls. If he had let the 2 footed lunge touch him, he would of been in some pain so im happy it never.
    • Joe Cole played well, but he thinks he is Pele and trying to take on every player before whipping the ball in.
    • No matter how much heart Carragher has, and effort he puts in he is never a Holding Player. He was excellent defensively, but his passing is still limited and he doesnt have an attacking bone in his body.
    • Terry really is scary from set pieces, and Beckham is still deadly whipping them in.
    • Where was Super-Duper Lampard then? Nowhere for the whole game, a s*** performance because this time Gerrard didnt have to wipe up his mess and stay back.
    • Owen clearly wasn't fit
    • Owen Hargreaves is the worst player to don an England shirt since barmby. What a terrible player, 2 games and he has been terrible in both. He cant play a single position excellently, just 'okish'
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    It's funny how people react.

    Eboue dives when there was actually contact and everyone calls him a cheat, farhan went as far as to say that he wanted Barca because he doesnt like teams who cheat. I guess he doesnt like England for Liverpool then?

    Now Gerrard dives with no contact and all of a sudden he is 'drawing a foul'. Laughable stuff

    Lampard was missing again last night, seems half the player without Makalele.
 
 
 
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