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  • View Poll Results: liverpool vs west ham cup final vote for the winner
    west ham
    16
    39.02%
    liverpool
    25
    60.98%

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    Club over country definitely..
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    Our old school fantasy team was called Rectum Rovers. I know, not very mature...
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    I've always thought it went club before country. I guess because most people support their local team, and identify more with the players/fans than the england players and fans. I know I'd trade a world cup win for the FA Cup, no questions!
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    Quite interesting this, im surprised so many people take club over country.

    The way I see it is that I was born in England making me English. I take pride in anything England do. Being English defines how you are to a certain extent.

    On the other hand I choose to support Arsenal, I could quite easily go and support Chelsea tomorrow but I couldnt change the fact that I was English.

    I hate the German, Argies etc more than I hate scousers, mancs etc. Add to that the World Cup is every 4 years and there really is no contest. Obviously I would prefer to watch Arsenal simply because they play better football but I want England to win more
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    Firstly, those moaning about the diving should shut up. Win at all costs in my opinion.

    A worrying first half performance, looked to me that they never got out of third gear. Second half much better, although Hungary were v poor.

    Great goal by Crouchy, surely he has done enough to warrant a starting place now.

    Walcott should have played from the start, couldn't make an impact in the short time.

    I'd go 4-4-2 every time with England, they were woeful with the 4-1-4-1
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    Skate ****.
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    Conversely, I don't consider the people who support their clubs to be 'real football fans', or at least, they've fundamentally misunderstood how things should work. Exactly what Economist said, you can pick your club team, and most people go for a team who aren't local but are successful. Club football is all about bragging rights and taking the piss out of your mates because your team is better, or local rivalries etc etc. International football is where you prove your country is the best at the sport whilst the whole world watches.
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    (Original post by SFC_FOREVER!)
    Firstly, those moaning about the diving should shut up. Win at all costs in my opinion.
    Thats the kind of attitude thats ruining football. Surely it would be better to win fairly at all costs?
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    The only ones that pick club over country are those that have never followed England away. Watching England in the middle of Sofia on a Wednesday night is brilliant! However much I love Saints, winning the World Cup would be amazing.
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    (Original post by Liam The Eagle)
    But then you don't become a legend by winning the Champions League,
    Completely and fundamentally WRONG.

    Sorry to be so emphatic but it's just the way it is. Do you know how many 'legends' Liverpool supporters can connect with? The number of great players that have walked down the tunnel, touched the sign and graced the anfield pitch? A huge number. And they were all undoubtedly better and more skilled than Igor Biscan, Vladimir Smicer and the like. But 4 years of compelte ineptitude and and under achievment went out of the window when Vladi hit that strike in Istanbul. Igor's performance in La Coruna and the games against Leverkusen. They'll be talked about in the sandon, albert, park etc as long as England managers are continually over shadowed by 1966.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal the way from vladimir smicer.

    I think there's reason why there are so many flags of lower league teams at england games is partially due to the football those fans watch. They dont follow their team all over europe, they dont they dont have that sense of identity of their club/city/region representing themselves and england abroad against the rest of europe. So they get their share of that with england. I'm not saying fans of big clubs dont follow England because there's a big number who do but I know a lot of scousers don't identify with the england team (historically and nowadays). Liverpool/merseyside is almost treated as a whole different country, seperate to england to many liverpool fans [that i know of] see the world cup as a nice exhibition of football but a distraction from the real thing from august to may. Similar feeling with mancunians I think.

    I do however think, that anyone who claims they are a 'real' fan for sticking their alleigance with one or the other is just being a little silly.
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    Hi all,

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    The old classic..
    Norfolk Nchance
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    I put club before country for a number of reasons. Firstly, and let me get this straight im not being a typical moaning scouser but there seems to be a very 'humerous' agenda against this city with the London media especially. Maybe if the country drops the ridiculous steretypes i would feel more english.
    Maybe if our players were not repeatedly treated like **** when they don the england white, ala crouch,barnes and Heskey then i would feel a bit of sympathy.Maybe its the fact the majority of fans who represent England at away games are bald BNP thugs who support milwall or some other lower league team with no success who taint this country.
    Maybe its the fact i cant force myself to my so hypocritical as to really feel any affection towards Cole,Rooney,Neville etc.
    I dont no, what i do no is that I have always counted myself as scouse first, english second.
    But, dont get me wrong. I hope England win, and ill be cheering them on.
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    Arsenal means more to me than England or Germany... because there is no constant for the national team, whereas being a gunner is forever.

    I do, however, have a vested interest in how my nation does, and I love to watch the greatest show on Earth.
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    (Original post by kpg)

    Sorry to be so emphatic but it's just the way it is. Do you know how many 'legends' Liverpool supporters can connect with? The number of great players that have walked down the tunnel, touched the sign and graced the anfield pitch? A huge number. And they were all undoubtedly better and more skilled than Igor Biscan, Vladimir Smicer and the like. But 4 years of compelte ineptitude and and under achievment went out of the window when Vladi hit that strike in Istanbul. Igor's performance in La Coruna and the games against Leverkusen. They'll be talked about in the sandon, albert, park etc as long as England managers are continually over shadowed by 1966.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal the way from vladimir smicer.
    Yes, he'll be remembered in Liverpool. Ask someone in Namibia who scored in the 2005 Champions League Final and they won't know. Ask them who scored in the World Cup Final and they'll Tell you 'Ronaldo twice'. Ask them who the best player ever was, they'll say Pele and Maradona. They won't know what Pele won at club level, but they will tell you he won the World Cup and appeared when he was 17. No one outside of Liverpool will give a crap who Vladimir Smicer or Xabi Alonso are, but World Cup greats live forever. Sorry to put it so harshly but thats the cold hard fact of the matter.




    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    I put club before country for a number of reasons. Maybe if the country drops the ridiculous steretypes i would feel more english.
    Maybe if our players were not repeatedly treated like **** when they don the england white, ala crouch,barnes and Heskey then i would feel a bit of sympathy.
    I dont no, what i do no is that I have always counted myself as scouse first, english second.
    But, dont get me wrong. I hope England win, and ill be cheering them on.
    I think you're taking things a bit to seriously. Every region takes the piss out of every other region, whether it's scousers wearing shell suits, Geordies with no tops on in December, or southerners sitting on their hands and being posh, we all do it to each other.

    I think you're being a bit negative with the Liverpool players playing for England as well. Lets be honest, Heskey is and was always ****, and should never have played for England. If Rooney or Crouch were 5 years older he wouldn't have. Crouch got booed because no one thought he was good enough and we didn't appreciate a sub-standard player being in the team. Now it's clear for most that he's proved his worth, and he got cheered onto the pitch at Old Trafford and we all had a laugh with him when he did his robot. Plus, Owen, Gerrard, Fowler, McManaman, Carragher and tons more Liverpool players have all been highly regarded at one point or another by non-scouse fans.
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    Its OK saying you should put club before country, but in this case, Ferguson [being scottish] is probably not as bothered about England as English people, so he would put Man Utd. above England in his view. If Man Utd. had someone like Steve McLaren as manager (hypothetically), he might be enthusiastic for Rooney to play.
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    I'd be happy if England won the world cup but I would much rather Liverpool won the Champions League/Prem/FA Cup etc next season instead. I have always been club over country. Partly because I don't feel as close to the country side, I don't go to every game of theres, follow them to aways etc. I also can't relate to players such as Neville, Lampard etc. as they are from teams which are rivals to Liverpool.

    It would be nice for England to win the WC but Liverpool will always be my priority.
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    Has to be Tottenham before England for me. Of course I watch all the England games and want them to win, but deep down I think we all know winning the World Cup is a bit unrealistic and even if it did happen the feel-good factor would wear off and you can't really get one over on other fans unless you know lots of foreigners. I would much prefer being able to say Tottenham were Premiership or European Champions than England World Champions.
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    (Original post by Liam The Eagle)
    Yes, he'll be remembered in Liverpool. Ask someone in Namibia who scored in the 2005 Champions League Final and they won't know. Ask them who scored in the World Cup Final and they'll Tell you 'Ronaldo twice'. Ask them who the best player ever was, they'll say Pele and Maradona. They won't know what Pele won at club level, but they will tell you he won the World Cup and appeared when he was 17. No one outside of Liverpool will give a crap who Vladimir Smicer or Xabi Alonso are, but World Cup greats live forever. Sorry to put it so harshly but thats the cold hard fact of the matter.
    I appreciate that which is why I talked about it being mentioned in pubs around Anfield. But what relevence is that to me? Just because winning the World cup gives you more international praise (although debatable, the 2005 CL final will be talked about for years and years for example) doesn't mean I should go and support England or whoever. Bernard Diomede won the world cup with france but is a nobody when you compare him to the likes of Pele and Ronaldo who will be known by any football fan around the world.

    And it has to be said that for most of the year I dislike the likes of Neville, Ferdinand, Rooney, Terry, Lampard etc. I'll follow england games mainly because they're all premiership players and I wont hold a grudge if they win the WC but I cannot actively support or encourage them on the pitch. I cant shout "**** off neville you manc ****" when he comes to take a throw in at anfield in January and then "Yeah well in Gary lad" in July when he makes a block from a Ronaldinho cross. It's physically beyond me. I was delighted when Gerrard and Crouch scored though, because they are liverpool players and am delighted when they do well.
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    I put club before country for a number of reasons. Firstly, and let me get this straight im not being a typical moaning scouser but there seems to be a very 'humerous' agenda against this city with the London media especially. Maybe if the country drops the ridiculous steretypes i would feel more english.
    Maybe if our players were not repeatedly treated like **** when they don the england white, ala crouch,barnes and Heskey then i would feel a bit of sympathy.Maybe its the fact the majority of fans who represent England at away games are bald BNP thugs who support milwall or some other lower league team with no success who taint this country.
    Maybe its the fact i cant force myself to my so hypocritical as to really feel any affection towards Cole,Rooney,Neville etc.
    I dont no, what i do no is that I have always counted myself as scouse first, english second.
    But, dont get me wrong. I hope England win, and ill be cheering them on.

    Can't believe I'm agreeing with a kopite :p: but spot on! It's not so much the stereotyping of scousers that annoys me, cause like someone else said we all do it to each other. But I just can't bring myself to back players I really dislike, like Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, etc. It's not as if I don't want England to win, it would be awesome if they did. It just wouldn't be the end of my world if they didn't.
 
 
 
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