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  • View Poll Results: liverpool vs west ham cup final vote for the winner
    west ham
    16
    39.02%
    liverpool
    25
    60.98%

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    (Original post by Zlatan)
    Huge stadium, Arsenal will still be outsung by the away fans though.
    doesn't take much for that though, does it zlatan...
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    Liverpool pipped Manchester United to top spot in an all-time league table dating back to the start of English League soccer and published by The Times newspaper on Monday.

    According to the standings which awards three points for a win and one for a draw since the start of league soccer in 1888, Liverpool, who have won a record 18 titles, emerged with 5,927 points from their 3,643 matches - an average of 1.63 points a game.

    Manchester United, who have won 15 titles, were second with 5,337 points from their 3,287 matches - an average of 1.62 points per game followed by Arsenal, champions 13 times, who totalled 5,780 points from 3,643 matches at 1.59 points a match.

    Despite playing only 2,063 matches in the top division, Leeds United were fourth with 1.48 average points with Aston Villa fifth (1.47), Everton sixth (1.47), Tottenham Hotspur seventh (1.44), Newcastle United eighth (1.43), Wolverhampton Wanderers ninth (1.42) and Burnley tenth (1.41).

    Chelsea, champions for the last two seasons, are 14th (average 1.39 points) and would have to total more than 90 points a season for the next 23 years to overhaul Liverpool's present average points per game.

    Leyton Orient, who spent one season in the top division in 1962-63, placed 62nd and last in the list with 0.64 points a match.

    Everton, founder members of the league in 1888, have played more top flight matches than any other club: 4,027 while Liverpool have won more than anyone else: 1,674. Everton also hold the record for drawn games (987) and defeats (1,402).



    Liverpool walk alone at the top

    By Tony Evans

    Our correspondent offers 18 league and five European titles as evidence
    THE SCOUSE VOICES SANG IT WITH gusto at the FA Cup semi-final at Old Trafford in April whenever a blue scarf came into sight:

    “**** off Chelsea FC,
    You ain’t got no history,
    Five European Cups and eighteen Leagues,
    That’s what we call history.”

    No other supporters cling to their heritage such as Liverpool fans. One man carries a half-size metal replica of the European Cup to games, passing the trophy round pubs as grinning reds queue up to have their photograph taken with it, as if it were the real thing. Callow adolescents sing of “the fields of Anfield Road, where once we saw King Kenny play”, something that Dalglish last did seriously before they were born. Such anachronisms are easy to mock. Especially since this is a club that has not won the league since 1990.

    This is an age of insane rebranding, where the past is often seen as worthless. So, hail to the Fink Tank for daring to believe that the past matters; that football existed before 1992. Expect a letter from the Premier League’s solicitors, Finksters — didn’t Blair’s Government ban all talk of the past some time in 2001? Yet another of the scourges of modern life is the utilisation of resources in academia to prove the bleedin’ obvious. The man in the pub with the miniature European Cup could have saved the Fink Tank hours of research and mountains of cash. If one club has won the title 18 times — three more than the next contestant — then it is clear who is best.

    Only the mindlessly bigoted could disagree with Liverpool topping the table. Eighteen titles — championships, we used to say before the marketing men stole the word for the second-raters — begin and end the discussion. And that is before five European Cups are introduced as proof.

    But football is not about evidence. It is as subjective and complex as poetry and depends on interpretation. So the Fink Tank’s mathematical certainty is just a jumping off point for the quarrels that will follow. Manchester United supporters, for example, their egos inflated by years of self-delusion — “We’re the biggest club in the world,” they say — will stake their claim. They invoke romance and tragedy, as if they are exclusive to Old Trafford, and cite massive, half-hearted fan clubs in Bangkok, each member wearing a fake replica kit, as proof of global greatness. Come back when you have won four more titles.

    Arsenal can make a case for ascendency with their longest continuous spell in the top flight, an impressive achievement. The marble halls and the sense of tradition make the club a unique institution. Recently, they have leavened the patrician attitude with a revolutionary attitude to importing foreign talent. It is hard not to be impressed. It is as compelling a case for greatness as can be made when you come to the table holding only 13 titles.

    Yet this is the club that began life in southeast London, decided there were richer pickings to be had by squatting in Tottenham Hotspur territory and blagged their way into the top flight without having to bother with something as tiresome as winning promotion. Luciano Moggi, the Juventus fixer, is a mere amateur compared with Sir Henry Norris, who managed to get a team that finished fifth in the second division into the first in 1919 — and a Tube station renamed for the club.

    Knowing that the aristocrats began life as robber barons puts their airs and graces in a different perspective.

    As for Chelsea supporters, who will feel rather put out that Huddersfield Town and Burnley rate higher, there is some sympathy. For all the importance of the past, being top of the pile now should carry some extra cachet. As it happens, the history at Stamford Bridge is rich and full of bizarre characters, from William “Fatty” Foulke, the goalkeeper who weighed 26st, to Ken Bates, the former chairman, whose idea of getting the supporters buzzing was to use electrified fences for crowd control. Sadly, the days when Chelsea were a sideshow were more entertaining than recent winning Saturdays at Stamford Bridge, when José Mourinho’s overefficient drabs have succeeded without any sense of fun and left empty seats in their wake. Those stayaway Chelsea supporters prove that there is more to football than winning trophies.

    But Liverpool are the greatest club and, furthermore, this table proves that they are based in the greatest football city in England. All the Fink Tank records worth having are shared between the city’s two clubs, with Everton — once the “Mersey Millionaires” and now, hilariously, “The People’s Club” — playing the most games in the top flight and scoring the most goals.

    Mere dry statistics? Well, the city has bred England’s two best players in Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney. The epicentre of English football sits on the east bank of the Mersey.

    The man in the pub with the cup could tell you that, too. He’d be even more vehement if he was carrying a newly-minted trophy this time next year — a Premiership replica would be ideal.

    Even though it is nice to be the best ever, history is far sweeter in the making than in the remembering.

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    Football is tomorrow not yesterday.
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    and its the only league Liverpool are going to be top of for a long time
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Football is tomorrow not yesterday.
    Amen

    Oh, and I thought post number 1 might have said "Kopites are gobsh*tes!"
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    Yet this is the club that began life in southeast London, decided there were richer pickings to be had by squatting in Tottenham Hotspur territory and blagged their way into the top flight without having to bother with something as tiresome as winning promotion. Luciano Moggi, the Juventus fixer, is a mere amateur compared with Sir Henry Norris, who managed to get a team that finished fifth in the second division into the first in 1919 — and a Tube station renamed for the club.
    :laugh: Arsenal tube station is still called Gillespie Road on the walls. :p:
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    (Original post by dan)
    Oh, and I thought post number 1 might have said "Kopites are gobsh*tes!"
    Nah, oblivion isn't online. :p:
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Nah, oblivion isn't online. :p:
    Oblivious!
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    (Original post by dan)
    Oblivious!
    That's the one. :p:
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    Not a lot, got 5 yrs of his sentence but increased his fine. They cant make their minds up, idiots.
    That's odd though it's not the oddest sentence I've seen from a court to be honest.
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    (Original post by Ronaldo VII)
    and its the only league Liverpool are going to be top of for a long time
    Were as Manchester United have made great strides in their challenge to the premership
    Enjoy your mickey mouse cup.
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    Were as Manchester United have made great strides in their challenge to the premership
    Enjoy your mickey mouse cup.
    Well at least we have wont it :p: The reason you haven't is cos it doesn't go to penalties:p:
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    Haven't won what?
    We have won the league 18 times thanks, football didnt start in 92 mate.
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    (Original post by calderstonesLFC)
    Haven't won what?
    We have won the league 18 times thanks, football didnt start in 92 mate.
    ah but the premiership did, and thats what you said :p:
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    Tóuche.
    Oh, and id rather win a european cup on penalties than not win at all thanks.
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    calderstones u need to get a life mate all you do is come out with all these weird statistics. even if manu came i wouldnt care, u came top, its nothin to brag about enough to open a new thread. u want to talk about the league? when was the last time you won it, seems yonks ago. and like they say the league table never lies u were the 3rd best team last year an we were 2nd, uve only come above is once in the MODERN era e.g. 90s onwards, just thought ad highlight modern didnt want calderstones to give me a history lesson.
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    Well ok great you won the top division 18 times wooo. Most liverpool fans cling to their history because they used to be the best and theyre not anymore.
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    (Original post by supernova2)
    Well ok great you won the top division 18 times wooo. Most liverpool fans cling to their history because they used to be the best and theyre not anymore.
    Most liverpool fans cling onto their history because they have more of it than any other club, and yes, because in comparison it's been a little bleak recently. But who gives a **** if we bang on about what happened in the 60s? I ****ING LOVE IT. Nothing better than hearing some old fart bleading on about how he had to skip school to queue up in 1965 to see us romp Inter 3-1. It's ****ING BRILLIANT.

    If we never win the european cup ever again, Istanbul will be talked about for generation after generation after generation. Get used to it.
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    (Original post by blazing_bandicoot)
    calderstones u need to get a life mate all you do is come out with all these weird statistics. even if manu came i wouldnt care, u came top, its nothin to brag about enough to open a new thread. u want to talk about the league? when was the last time you won it, seems yonks ago. and like they say the league table never lies u were the 3rd best team last year an we were 2nd, uve only come above is once in the MODERN era e.g. 90s onwards, just thought ad highlight modern didnt want calderstones to give me a history lesson.
    Okay, seing as were talking about modern success.
    Who has won more trophies since 2000?
    Man united went 27 years without winning the league you know?
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    I am a Liverpool fan but I must say I'm gutted to lose a player such as Dennis from the Premiership, he was a fantastic talent.

    Best of luck for whatever else you do Dennis.
 
 
 
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