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    (Original post by Straight Talker)
    Yes Freedom in this country good. But why should illegal immigrant get the same amount of freedom, when we don't in their country??? They come into this county and everything is so simple, they bring more family/friends in too, then they have the cheek to complain that the country is discriminating against them. For example the guy who came of his motor bike, or the schol girl who recently won a court case (very expensive to us tax payers btw) so she could wear a head scarf to school. Its utterly disgusting to be frank. If they don't like it, get out. Now thats simple.
    What about legal immigrants? Protected under the law just as much as you or I, just as much right to complain, it's their country too in the eyes of the law, whether you agree with that or not.

    Btw this girl wouldn't have had to go to court to earn the right to wear her headscarf if people like you could just live and let live a bit. Your fault, in the end.
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    (Original post by Straight Talker)
    Yes Freedom in this country good. But why should illegal immigrant get the same amount of freedom, when we don't in their country???
    What about the immigrants who don't get much freedom in their own country? Citizens who are persecuted in their own nations and are made refugees..?
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    What about legal immigrants? Protected under the law just as much as you or I, just as much right to complain, it's their country too in the eyes of the law, whether you agree with that or not.

    Btw this girl wouldn't have had to go to court to earn the right to wear her headscarf if people like you could just live and let live a bit. Your fault, in the end.
    Oh yes I'm sorry I forgot, everything comes down to me, everything is my fault.

    Not a very good come back sweetie

    I would've respected your answer without the last bit you added
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    (Original post by Prad)
    What about the immigrants who don't get much freedom in their own country? Citizens who are persecuted in their own nations and are made refugees..?
    Yes I can understand that, but why must they all come to England? You don't see France offering to help do you?
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    (Original post by Straight Talker)
    Oh yes I'm sorry I forgot, everything comes down to me, everything is my fault.

    Not a very good come back sweetie

    I would've respected your answer without the last bit you added
    Shame.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Shame.
    It most certainly is.

    And with that I'm going to go now, I have a BBQ to get ready for
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    (Original post by richl)
    But we have a culture where people can express themselves how they like, and wear what they like. How should they dress? according to what's on the catwalk or glossy magazines of the day? give me a break. What you're saying's very hard to pin down
    In a muslim nation, Western women who visit are expected to cover up as respect. Muslims in the UK are under no such obligation. Is this fair for Western women? It poses the question of respect - we respect their culture and they respect ours. As long as muslims don't push for bans in pornography, Page 3, bikinis, strip clubs, etc.. then they're accepting British society.. they don't have to like it, but as long as they're not trying to get it outlawed, it's okay..
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    I know she's saying we don't force them here.

    Do you think it's unfair that a western woman is forced to wear a veil when they go to the Middle East?
    They're also forced to wear long sleeves and dresses/trousers, and I think it's all unfair. My reasons:
    1. Need all over suntan!
    2. Why should I cover up? I don't believe in their religion
    3. It's waaaay too hot to wear all that stuff.

    Anyway dude, you just said before that their law is petty. But I'd still have to follow it, or you get stoned :eek:
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    (Original post by Straight Talker)
    Yes I can understand that, but why must they all come to England? You don't see France offering to help do you?
    Oh come on - given the choice between Britain and France, we all know who anyone would choose..

    That was a joke, by the way.. before anyone starts throwing rotting vegetables and the such..

    There are certain traits though - North Afrians migrate to France. Turks migrate to Germany. And Asians migrate to the UK..
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    (Original post by Lauren)
    They're also forced to wear long sleeves and dresses/trousers, and I think it's all unfair. My reasons:
    1. Need all over suntan!
    2. Why should I cover up? I don't believe in their religion
    3. It's waaaay too hot to wear all that stuff.

    Anyway dude, you just said before that their law is petty. But I'd still have to follow it, or you get stoned :eek:
    So we're in agreement that being forced to dress in a certain way to conform is wrong. Thus I don't see why you have a problem with some Muslims choosing to dress how they do in our country.
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    (Original post by Lauren)
    They're also forced to wear long sleeves and dresses/trousers, and I think it's all unfair. My reasons:
    1. Need all over suntan!
    2. Why should I cover up? I don't believe in their religion
    3. It's waaaay too hot to wear all that stuff.

    Anyway dude, you just said before that their law is petty. But I'd still have to follow it, or you get stoned :eek:
    But we advocate freedom, and they don't. Thats the difference. We could go down to their level, but that would an infringement of civil liberty, which none of you wants.
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    (Original post by Lauren)
    They're also forced to wear long sleeves and dresses/trousers, and I think it's all unfair. My reasons:
    1. Need all over suntan!
    2. Why should I cover up? I don't believe in their religion
    3. It's waaaay too hot to wear all that stuff.

    Anyway dude, you just said before that their law is petty. But I'd still have to follow it, or you get stoned :eek:
    I agree with points 1 and 3..

    But I think the issue of respect does come into play - When in Rome, and all that..
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    (Original post by Prad)
    As long as muslims don't push for bans in pornography, Page 3, bikinis, strip clubs, etc.. then they're accepting British society.. they don't have to like it, but as long as they're not trying to get it outlawed, it's okay..
    Well, they (like anyone else) are by all means free to try through the general democratic means, this in itself being a vital part of British society...
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    (Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
    Well, they (like anyone else) are by all means free to try through the general democratic means, this in itself being a vital part of British society...
    Are women really forced to dress in veil etc in middle east? What if one day they decide not to wear a veil?
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    (Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
    Well, they (like anyone else) are by all means free to try through the general democratic means, this in itself being a vital part of British society...
    If they're British citizens (holding a British passport) then I agree - they're entitled to a say on how the country is run. I still believe that this country is going to remain secular and don't see such propositions materialising on the basis of religious circumstances..

    I love you sig, by the way..
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    (Original post by Prad)
    If they're British citizens (holding a British passport) then I agree - they're entitled to a say on how the country is run. I still believe that this country is going to remain secular and don't see such propositions materialising on the basis of religious circumstances..

    I love you sig, by the way..
    Good point. Proposals given and pressures exerted by a group should invariably be based on reason rather than religious dogma, and in that case it's certainly favourable that this country should remain a secular one.

    Of course, at the same time, we should take care not to erode the fundamental right to free choice of (and practice of) a religion, but public policy should not be dictated merely by a religious text or one group's interpretation thereof, in my opinion.

    (In short: I agree.)

    EDIT: cheers on the sig, btw.
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    this such a dumb question. of course britain won't become muslim. it's got about as much chance of becoming muslim as hitler has of becoming king!
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    (Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
    Of course, at the same time, we should take care not to erode the fundamental right to free choice of (and practice of) a religion, but public policy should not be dictated merely by a religious text or one group's interpretation thereof, in my opinion.
    Saying that, isn't the basic funamentals of law and justice based on the Ten Commandents?
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    (Original post by Prad)
    Saying that, isn't the basic funamentals of law and justice based on the Ten Commandents?
    That's actually a rather huge debate within the law, as to how far law is based on morals, and how far morals are based on the the dominant religion within a culture... it is obvious that to an extent, laws are influenced by what are defined as sins, or at least that there is some sort of correlation between them (eg, murder is both a crime and a sin), but at the same time, not all major sins are crimes, and not all crimes are sins: adultery, for example, is not a crime, whilst parking on yellow lines is.

    It may also be true today to a lesser extent today than in the past, owing to the decline of religious observance... anyway, it's a damned good question you ask, and I may even start a thread on it myself; there's a whole lot of arguments that can be brought into it. The shame is that I'm standing in The Bigot Thread, Part 113, so can't go into it much more here.
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    (Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
    It may also be true today to a lesser extent today than in the past, owing to the decline of religious observance... anyway, it's a damned good question you ask, and I may even start a thread on it myself; there's a whole lot of arguments that can be brought into it. The shame is that I'm standing in The Bigot Thread, Part 113, so can't go into it much more here.
    Fair enough - it is an interesting debate.. if you do start the thread, I'll take the credit. Naturally, you can have all the responsibility..
 
 
 

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