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zizero
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#1
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Loads of people download music and other stuff illegally. I was just wondering what you guys think about this. Is it morally "right"? Do you do it? If you think it's morally justifiable, what's the difference with walking into a shop and stealing a CD (so far as stealing is "wrong"...)?
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G4ry
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If you want to say that, then it's wrong to record from the radio, it's wrong to record something on to video.

The difference between downloading music and stealing from a shop is that the shop has rent to pay and they actually paid for the CDs. By downloading you are only stealing from the extortionate record companies and some people download music and then buy the album on CD.
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zizero
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(Original post by G4ry)
If you want to say that, then it's wrong to record from the radio, it's wrong to record something on to video.

The difference between downloading music and stealing from a shop is that the shop has rent to pay and they actually paid for the CDs. By downloading you are only stealing from the extortionate record companies and some people download music and then buy the album on CD.
So is stealing from record companies right just because they are rich? And what about the artists?
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JSM
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Well it is illegal and is removing money from people who worked to earn it. However, everyone will jsutify it on the price of CDs and the extortion of record companies. People will do it as long as htey can.
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G4ry
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(Original post by zizero)
So is stealing from record companies right just because they are rich? And what about the artists?
Yes it's right, and what about the artists? They're rubbish and they get paid very well, too well. In my day, bands had to do gigs and they got their money from there . Most "artists" are un-talented eg. Sean Paul, cheeky girls etc.
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MattG
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(Original post by zizero)
Loads of people download music and other stuff illegally. I was just wondering what you guys think about this. Is it morally "right"? Do you do it? If you think it's morally justifiable, what's the difference with walking into a shop and stealing a CD (so far as stealing is "wrong"...)?
have you seen the prices for CDs in the high street stores nowadays??

yes it is illegal, but personally i use it to sample bands etc, normally if i like a band i will go and buy their album. i dont want to have to go out and buy a £4 single to hear a band.

the problem comes when people lose sight of the value that music holds and it just becomes a commodity. it needs to be understood that somebody has put effort/sweat/damn hardwork into the mp3 you are hearing. but its not the fault of p2p programs that this happens.

i could go on and i will later but i need to do some work and need some coffee...
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jammyd
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(Original post by G4ry)
If you want to say that, then it's wrong to record from the radio, it's wrong to record something on to video.

The difference between downloading music and stealing from a shop is that the shop has rent to pay and they actually paid for the CDs. By downloading you are only stealing from the extortionate record companies and some people download music and then buy the album on CD.
I thought it was only illegal if you sold it to make a profit? People don't get prosecuted anyway so it doesn't really matter
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thefish_uk
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For Christmas this year I've asked for some of the best music of what I got off Kazaa, all legally paid for. Like the Pixies and Skunk Anansie (haha, my gran's going to have fun finding them).

I'll happily pay for decent music, just not through the nose. And I think that a CD single should cost the same that an album of the same length would cost (worked out by, say, a 1 track single being the same price as a 12 track one divided by 12 so it'd be about £0.90).

What's the point of singles anyway? Kazaa is much quicker, even on dial-up. Why don't they just release the album on time.

Nobody cares about the charts anyway.
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thefish_uk
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Also with software I'll happily buy games because I've read of the amount of effort that goes into them, and they often have multiplayer, mods etc. which begin a whole community.

As for rip-off stuff from Microsoft... no.
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zizero
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(Original post by G4ry)
Yes it's right, and what about the artists? They're rubbish and they get paid very well, too well. In my day, bands had to do gigs and they got their money from there . Most "artists" are un-talented eg. Sean Paul, cheeky girls etc.
If the artists are rubbish than you shouldn't feel the need to download their music...

Even supposing they are rubbish, you can't deny they are popular. Even if Sean Paul is untalented, people want to hear his music. So it's their own fault if they listen to rubbish music. Consumers get the art they deserve.

But back to my initial point: Does the fact that the artists "are paid too well" make it right to steal from them? Isn't stealing in itself wrong (BTW, according to most major religions this is the case; so if you are a Christian for instance, isn't downloading music from Kazaa immoral)?
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G4ry
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(Original post by zizero)
If the artists are rubbish than you shouldn't feel the need to download their music...

Even supposing they are rubbish, you can't deny they are popular. Even if Sean Paul is untalented, people want to hear his music. So it's their own fault if they listen to rubbish music. Consumers get the art they deserve.

But back to my initial point: Does the fact that the artists "are paid too well" make it right to steal from them? Isn't stealing in itself wrong (BTW, according to most major religions this is the case; so if you are a Christian for instance, isn't downloading music from Kazaa immoral)?
It's fine by morals. I wouldn't steal from a shop. If i could i'd rob a bank. It's different. I've looked in the Torah and they don't have anything about Kazaa so it seems fine for me
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thefish_uk
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(Original post by G4ry)
It's fine by morals. I wouldn't steal from a shop. If i could i'd rob a bank. It's different. I've looked in the Torah and they don't have anything about Kazaa so it seems fine for me
Haha.

Maybe they should update all the religious stuff to modern, understandable terms.
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alex_thompson
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lol. very good answer.

we want to download music 4 free! its quick easy, and saves money!
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zizero
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#14
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Let's rephrase the question to a simple Yes/No question: Is downloading copyrighted music with Kazaa without paying, stealing?
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thefish_uk
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(Original post by zizero)
Let's rephrase the question to a simple Yes/No question: Is downloading copyrighted music with Kazaa without paying, stealing?
Define "stealing"
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G4ry
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(Original post by zizero)
Let's rephrase the question to a simple Yes/No question: Is downloading copyrighted music with Kazaa without paying, stealing?
Yes, it's stealing. But i don't care and who else does?
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zizero
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#17
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(Original post by thefish_uk)
Define "stealing"
to take someone's property without right or permission

to infringe upon someone's fundamental human right to property
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alex_thompson
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(Original post by zizero)
to take someone's property without right or permission

to infringe upon someone's fundamental human right to property
i donwload music when i want.

i dont care.
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zizero
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#19
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(Original post by G4ry)
Yes, it's stealing. But i don't care and who else does?
Doesn't the Torah consider stealing immoral?
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G4ry
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#20
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(Original post by zizero)
Doesn't the Torah consider stealing immoral?
Sure, but i don't. It's how you define stealing though. Stealing from an old lady i wouldn't do, stealing from a huge faceless corporation or a bank is fine.
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