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    Please people. I'm just asking everyone to do a small but BIG favour. Please click on the link on my signature and vote to make history poverty. It'll only take a few secs of your time.
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    No. This is an evil campaign. They need free trade not hand outs.
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    Free Trade, in my opinion.
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    excuse me? how is this an evil campaign? this is to stop little children in africa earning 1p for a 12 hour job and having their products sold for 25 quid and earn a decent amount of dosh instead. please tell me, how is that evil? Its giving justice to poor people!
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    No. This is an evil campaign. They need free trade not hand outs.
    Free trade isn't the solution. Trade justice is.
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    thank you - BTW this isnt a leaflet - its a form to vote!
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Free trade isn't the solution. Trade justice is.
    What exactly is trade justice? Just out of interest...
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    No. This is an evil campaign. They need free trade not hand outs.
    From what I've seen, this certainly isn't just a "give them cash, they have no food" thing any more. Perhaps free trade is actually the solution, but that's not what we have now; tariffs and subsidies continue to distort global trade, to the disadvantage of the poorer nations:

    (Original post by MPH.org)
    farms and businesses go bust, unable to compete with a flood of cheap, subsidised imports.
    Thus one of the fundamental aims of MPH, as far as I am aware, is to change the trade laws so that they are no longer governed entirely by the largest economies on the planet, and so that producers in wealthy nations are no longer unfairly advantaged by government support, whilst those in less wealthy nations are barred from giving this same support.

    Anyway, however misinformed I am on the subject, "Give us yer fockin' money" went out with Status Quo. And "evil" is certainly a step too far in any circumstances.
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    (Original post by Da Mouse)
    excuse me? how is this an evil campaign? this is to stop little children in africa earning 1p for a 12 hour job and having their products sold for 25 quid and earn a decent amount of dosh instead. please tell me, how is that evil? Its giving justice to poor people!

    It has paid for too much emphaisis to aid and not enough to free trade. Aid damages thse countries, in fact a recent support showed that for every 1% increase in aid the recepitants economy declines by 3.5%. These coutries need democracy, property rights and for all coutries to abolish subsidies such as CAP. If you actually cared this is where your emphasis would be not giving hand outs. For most people this whole campaign is just an excuse to looking caring and cool by wearing their bands made in sweatshops.
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    (Original post by Frances)
    What exactly is trade justice? Just out of interest...
    Free trade assumes that the whole world is on a level playing field, which quite clearly is not the case. Trade justice aims to level the field so that we can have free trade which is actually helpful to third world economies rather than being totally detrimental. If they have free trade now, importing goods grown in country X will be cheaper, and hence farmers in country X will go out of business.
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    Free trade assumes that the whole world is on a level playing field, which quite clearly is not the case. Trade justice aims to level the field so that we can have free trade which is actually helpful to third world economies rather than being totally detrimental.
    So what are the practical acts of this views?
    Free trade is benefical if they embrace it as the E Asian tygers show. Countries which protect their industries leads to disaster as shown by India for example. This is because there is no competition and so no motive to improve.
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    Countries which protect their industries leads to disaster as shown by India for example. This is because there is no competition and so no motive to improve.
    That is an assumption on your part. Just because industry is protected, does not mean that there is no competition. In any case, this is a measure to ALLOW the industries to be ABLE to compete with the rest of the world. Once they can compete, there will be no need for the restrictions.
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    That is an assumption on your part. Just because industry is protected, does not mean that there is no competition.
    No its a fact. India for example shows it at work. If you have a car industry and no one is competing with you, instead of investing they brbe the gov to keep their protection. The poor get shoddy and expensive products while the rich get bribes and massive markets. The more competition the better. It drives down prices, prevents corporate collusion (its much harder to fix prices with the more competitors in the market) and makes companies try and get the edge as they know they will go out of business if they do not. Protected industries have no incentive.

    In any case, this is a measure to ALLOW the industries to be ABLE to compete with the rest of the world. Once they can compete, there will be no need for the restrictions.
    It certainly does not work out that way. Ghana in 1967 had an average per capita of $800, S. Korea had one of 550. Ghana restrcted trade while S. Korea opened up, invited businesses in, took advantage of its rel cheap labour, offered low taxes etc. Today Ghana's per capita income is 370 whilst S Korea's is 10,360.

    Once they have protected its very difficult to get rid of them becase of vested interests.

    Third world countires can play on their advanages thanks to free trade as E.Asian tygers did. They did not close off, they opened up. The reason why companies move is because of cheaper labour.

    Take for example this situation. Jane is not qualified but she can cook. John is a doctor and can cook and much better than Jane. But John does not do his cooking he pays Jane to do it. Why? It is far more profitbale for him to spend his time doing what is more productive for him - being a doctor. Meanwhile Jane gets money eventhough she is not the better cook. This explains why free trade works.
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    May i ask why vote, if the G8 have announced they are doing something about it. :confused: i dont get what this vote will achieve. I voted anyway though
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    Again, objectivism, that is your view on it. And as you have shown before, you care about money and corporate institutions. I think there are more important things than money in life.

    http://www.christianaid.org.uk/campa...ade/basics.htm
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Again, objectivism, that is your view on it. And as you have shown before, you care about money and corporate institutions. I think there are more important things than money in life.

    http://www.christianaid.org.uk/campa...ade/basics.htm

    As i say in the thread about corporations, i care about them not because of money but because of freedom. You have also failed to counter any of my points in my last post which show that trade justice as you call it leads to poverty not wealth. You talk about making these third world coutries rich, but than say there are more important things than money. Tell that to the people starving all over the world.
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    Wow, I never realised just what MPH meant by 'trade justice.' That's pretty evil. Shame on them/Christian Aid.
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    (Original post by homoterror)
    Wow, I never realised just what MPH meant by 'trade justice.' That's pretty evil. Shame on them/Christian Aid.

    Their intentions are good, they want people to have wealth, but their methods are wrong.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Their intentions are good, they want people to have wealth, but their methods are wrong.
    I think they should be ashamed though because they're undoubtedly aware that there is another model of how development takes place, and that if this model is correct then their efforts are screwing the 3rd world over. Yet they present this idea of 'trade justice,' deliberately named and put forward to fool the masses into believing that they are the authority on development, probably just to forward their own political agenda against corporations. Whether they're right or wrong, if people knew how they were being manipulated by Christian Aid I think they'd be very angry.
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    (Original post by homoterror)
    I think they should be ashamed though because they're undoubtedly aware that there is another model of how development takes place, and that if this model is correct then their efforts are screwing the 3rd world over. Yet they present this idea of 'trade justice,' deliberately named and put forward to fool the masses into believing that they are the authority on development, probably just to forward their own political agenda against corporations. Whether they're right or wrong, if people knew how they were being manipulated by Christian Aid I think they'd be very angry.
    Yes you are right. They do a disservice to the word Christian.
 
 
 
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