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    (Original post by carldaman)
    These people aren't idiots. They clear made a choice to go and commit these acts. I don't like the term 'brainwashing', and reckon they would have had a predisposition to want to commit these acts anyway. I know the injustices that the first world causes, upon Muslims and other peoples. I'm aware of the doctrine these clerics preach. Yet I for one would not attack innocent civilians.
    They might or might not be idiots, but they are gullible. Many Muslims youths in poor neighborhoods are in search for an identity, and these preachers of jihad create their identity for them. Without these preachers, militant Islam would not exist in Britain.

    (Original post by JonD)
    If they are directly calling for violence, I believe laws already are in place to tackle that. The new laws seek to ban hate bieng spread from within both ethnic minorities and the ethnic majorities, limiting both radical clerics and radical "islamophobes". By following the mainstream critique of religious hate legislation, while at the same time saying that they want religious hate legislation (but for Muslims only), it is obvious they are advocating different laws for different ethnic groups.
    Read any statement by al-Masri. How was someone like that allowed to preach in Britain? You're right, the laws are in place. But the government has pressured the police and intelligence agencies to not arrest people who commit these crimes while giving religious sermon.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    The government did nothing to prevent the brainwashing of its own citizens by Islamist preachers like al-Masri, and the people who were brainwashed by these preachers are likely responsible for the London attacks.
    I agree 100%

    The BNP leaflet is in very poor taste visually but with reference to the Labour party I find it hard to disagree! :eek:

    The Labour Party is too keen to play up its "anti-racist" credentials than safeguard our country.

    Our security services must despair, they work their knackers off trying to prevent terror only for New Labour to allow half a million people to come in illegally and disappear.

    They police have become a "anti-racist" laughing stock, more concerned with MORE diversity than tackling crime. Promote on merit not RACE!!!

    For years they've failed to expel evil clerics for the misplaced sake of "community relations". A betrayal to us all, and not least to young muslims who are vulnerable to their bile.

    The irony is that the New Labour "anti racists" are indirectly promoting racism.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    Political opportunism at its sickest.
    :ditto: me thinks the same
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    it is very easy for the BNP to critise the labour government for their failures but action is another thing. As BNP and all opposition parties that aren't going to be in power they are never going effectively change anything thus can moan as much as they like and think of the most stupid solutions to racism that clearly won't work.

    perhaps the police have taking the rasicm message too far but on the other side they are being called rasicist all the time. One example is the fact that they stop and search more black and asian people than white. However, this does not mean that if the police promote racism due to New Labour!
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    Scust...
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    .. and is that not an acceptable position from which to make judgements?

    Nonetheless, there's still the issue of suitability between image used and agenda pushed. An anti-poverty agenda may suitably use an image of a poverty-stricken child.

    An anti-Muslim agenda may not suitably use an image of the blown up bus, because the bus was not blown up by the millions of Muslims living here, it was blown up by four extremist terrorists. If it were merely trying to push an anti-terrorism agenda, it would be suitable.

    I'm not sure why you're struggling to see the difference.
    There is a suitability, otherwise you wouldn't have made the connection and would have simply made no sense of it (Imagine if they chose a box of Yorkshire Tea instead).

    Their agenda is persuading people that the BNP can stop terrorism by getting rid of Muslims and withdrawing from Iraq. The agenda of another group might be persuading people that they can stop poverty by getting rid of world debt and boosting aid. For each, there is an oppositing force who disagree, claiming it would actually make things worse. The commonality is that both use emotive images to draw attention, yet only the former is bieng condemned for it. They are entirely different, but only because the cause is.
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    (Original post by Iloveawaygames)

    For years they've failed to expel evil clerics for the misplaced sake of "community relations". A betrayal to us all, and not least to young muslims who are vulnerable to their bile.
    tbh id rather the cleric stayed locked up in prison i nthis country such as that one handed guy, tbh id rather pay for them to be held in prison with my tax miney were we can stop them form preaching than deport them to a country like syria or Saudi Arabia were they can prach wot they want at free will to mass crowds and recruit easily, "keep your friends close but your enemys closer".

    As for the labour government i agree they are a bunch of politically correct do gooders we needa primeminieter kind of like george bush but obviously not exactly like! :eek: who gets things done that need to be and dont give a toss who they piss off aslong as it makes the country a better and safer place to live.

    The BNP are only doing wot any other political party does although by all means t doest make it right but i think because its the BNP people immediatley react badly just because they think that if they agree with the BNP on some issues they are branded racist. Although using the pictures at such anearly stage is very distasteful and at the wrong time, i think they raise a very valid point were our government has failed its people, by allowing thses people such freedom to preech hated, if i stood in the middle of the street and started preaching to kill all muslims id in prison quicker than i could turn the microphone on, all in all this country is in a sad state of affairs.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    There is a suitability, otherwise you wouldn't have made the connection and would have simply made no sense of it (Imagine if they chose a box of Yorkshire Tea instead).
    Our definitions of 'suitability' obviously differ. I am referring to 'suitability' in the sense that the image is genuinely suitable. The BNP using this image is suitable in the sense that it will have people make the link, but this type of suitability is based entirely on ignorance and xenophobia.

    (Original post by JonD)
    only the former is bieng condemned for it.
    For reasons outlined above.
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    tbh id rather the cleric stayed locked up in prison i nthis country such as that one handed guy, tbh id rather pay for them to be held in prison with my tax miney were we can stop them form preaching than deport them to a country like syria or Saudi Arabia were they can prach wot they want at free will to mass crowds and recruit easily, "keep your friends close but your enemys closer".
    If these clerics went to many muslim countries they'd be banged up, or even better, executed. Most muslim countries wouldn't tolerate these people as they would view them as political agitators.

    Clowns like Hamza wouldn't last very long in Iran!
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Our definitions of 'suitability' obviously differ. I am referring to 'suitability' in the sense that the image is genuinely suitable. The BNP using this image is suitable in the sense that it will have people make the link, but this type of suitability is based entirely on ignorance and xenaphobia.
    Is there no link between Muslims, Iraq and terrorism? It might be inappropriate because we don't know who the terrorists are yet, but most people have the same conclusion. Of course, if the assumption is wrong, it'll make the BNP look silly.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    Is there no link between Muslims, Iraq and terrorism?
    To the extent that the BNP agenda will try and push via this image? Nope.
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    (Original post by Iloveawaygames)
    If these clerics went to many muslim countries they'd be banged up, or even better, executed. Most muslim countries wouldn't tolerate these people as they would view them as political agitators.

    Clowns like Hamza wouldn't last very long in Iran!
    Well if thats true why are men like Ayatollah Kashani allowed to preach in iran then? tbh the though the coutnrys like syria, iran and saudi arabia wouldnt be banged up , executed etc would they heck. They would be abllowed ot preech freely possibly even unofficially suppoted by the government. Even they was a threat of being "banged up" they would dissappear into the corwd before thye even got chance to be arressted anyway iu say keep em all in Britian in prison or even better Guantanomo Bay were we can stop them sprading ther evil aorund the world or take some advice and kill them all but i doubt we woudl get away with that UNFORTUNANTEY
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    The BNP are just trying to cash in on the sickening events of 7/7. As for the issue of minorities, this thread has just confirmed for me that most people are stupid.

    Let us say the bombers were Muslim, which is likely. They are in no way reflective of the wider community, just as Tim McVey was not reflective of the wider Irish American community after his terror actions.

    You cannot judge a community, the vast majority of whom are normal folk with normal lives, by the actions of a lunatic fringe element within that community. No, thats not justice. That represents the triumph of the idiotic over the rational, where what we need desperately is for rationalism to become a guiding force.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    ; ethnic minorities as a whole were not responsible for what the image conveys.
    Not as a whole no, but you cannot deny that if we had never accepted these immigrants we wouldn't have deal with this minority of ********s causing deaths to innocent people. The most shocking thing is that these bombers were British citizens, given an oppurtunity by the 95% of decent people, who are accommodating and open-minded towards immigrants, to integrate into our society and recieve all the accompanying benefits. The fact that they then turn around and **** all over us makes it even more disgusting imo. I would have been quite in favour of not accepting immigrants at the time they came, but the point is they are here now, and you have to accept it. You cannot deport 2nd/3rd generation immigrants, even if you wanted to, yet some of these people still clearly feel no loyalty to Britain whatsoever, hence they are willling to blow themselves up as a result of events thousands of miles away, which is clearly where their spiritual home lies-to that i say fine, well go and live there then! But they don't, and the reason is because they prefer the benefits that western society has given them, yet they are too stupid to even appreciate this, wanting to enjoy the benefits yet condemn us at the same time, wanting to have their cake and eat it-they then decide to blow us to pieces for some cause they don't even understand. It's disgusting.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    When Mr. Griffen said "The Labour Party for years has allowed Islamic extremists to preach in mosques in Britain and use them to recruit people to their cause.
    I heard this last night on American TV. Is it true?? If so, seems like it borders on sedition.
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    Originally Posted by Douglas
    An excerpt from your link..............
    Do you think ethnic minorities are to blame??
    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Nope.
    There's probably a few people that would disagree with you.

    Sky News correspondent Martin Brunt said senior anti-terror police were working on the assumption the men were suicide bombers and had died in the explosions - and were probably British nationals.
    NPR Topics: News
    British Police Make Arrest in Bombing Probe
    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:56:11 EDT
    After a series of raids in the city of Leeds, one person is arrested in connection with the July 7 London bombings. Scotland Yard is investigating whether four attackers died in the blasts; all are all thought to be British born. Police searching one house Tuesday found suspect materials, which they destroyed in a controlled explosion.
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    about the types of advertising...
    the african child 'scene' represents the majority of the African people.. showing the depth and nature - and that we should help other humans o.o..
    the blown bus - a minority of a few... to grab political votes...

    help people on one hand... trying to get into power to benefit themselves...
    hmm difficult moral decision :P
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    Only The BNP would do such a thing, Take advantage of a raw situation and try and get an advantage of it. While everyone else see's it as a disasturous situation,. The BNP think 'Oh heres a chance to put down labour'.

    Imagine the Pictures If the BNP were in power. The Hate that they peddle would of made it even worse.
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    (Original post by Douglas)
    There's probably a few people that would disagree with you.
    Apologies, I assumed you meant "ethnic minorities" in a general sense. I wouldn't be prepared to say "ethnic minoriteis were responsible for the bombings", as that implies that the bombings were the work of the ~4.8 million people in the UK belonging to e.m's.

    Of course the four people who did the bombings were FROM ethnic minorities.

    However we got our wires crossed over the wording of your question.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Not as a whole no, but you cannot deny that if we had never accepted these immigrants we wouldn't have deal with this minority of ********s causing deaths to innocent people. The most shocking thing is that these bombers were British citizens, given an oppurtunity by the 95% of decent people, who are accommodating and open-minded towards immigrants, to integrate into our society and recieve all the accompanying benefits. The fact that they then turn around and **** all over us makes it even more disgusting imo. I would have been quite in favour of not accepting immigrants at the time they came, but the point is they are here now, and you have to accept it. You cannot deport 2nd/3rd generation immigrants, even if you wanted to, yet some of these people still clearly feel no loyalty to Britain whatsoever, hence they are willling to blow themselves up as a result of events thousands of miles away, which is clearly where their spiritual home lies-to that i say fine, well go and live there then! But they don't, and the reason is because they prefer the benefits that western society has given them, yet they are too stupid to even appreciate this, wanting to enjoy the benefits yet condemn us at the same time, wanting to have their cake and eat it-they then decide to blow us to pieces for some cause they don't even understand. It's disgusting.
    Your above post appears to be referring to ethnic minorites as a whole, rather than the four people who did this. I'm sure you can appreciate why that is a ridiculous thing to do.

    Don't lose sight of the fact that the vast vast majority of the ~ 4.8 million people living in the UK belonging to ethnic minorities are just normal people.

    You really shouldn't make such generalisations as above.
 
 
 

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