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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Civil wars are usually caused by a combination of self-interest of elites and the identity of the people they are trying to influence. Since religion is a key aspect of most people's identity (especially in the third world), it's fair to say that religion plays a significant role in sparking off civil wars.
    The English Civil War was between Royalists and Cromwellians. Nothing to do with religion. :confused:
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    (Original post by yawn)
    The English Civil War was between Royalists and Cromwellians. Nothing to do with religion. :confused:
    He did say "usually"..
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    (Original post by Prad)
    He did say "usually"..
    OK - let's look at the American Civil War then, seeing as he's a citizen of the USA.

    Was that because of religion?
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    (Original post by yawn)
    The English Civil War was between Royalists and Cromwellians. Nothing to do with religion. :confused:
    I never claimed that all civil wars have a religious aspect. You can keep on listing individual wars that didn't involve religion all you like. Considering that there were thousands of civil war in human history, you'd need more evidence than that.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    OK - let's look at the American Civil War then, seeing as he's a citizen of the USA.

    Was that because of religion?
    That's a strawman. I didn't say civil wars usually happen because of religion. I said that religion is a significant factor is bringing them about.
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    That's a strawman. I didn't say civil wars usually happen because of religion. I said that religion is a significant factor is bringing them about.
    I thought the early Americans were deists and thus not religious...
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    (Original post by Speleo)
    I thought the early Americans were deists and thus not religious...
    The American Civil War didn't happen for religious reasons. Once again, naming several wars that don't fit the rule doesn't negate the fact that religion usually plays a significant role in these conflicts.

    And most early Americans were significantly more religious than they are right now. There are some exceptions (especially among the Founding Fathers), but religion played a much larger role in the life of average Americans 150 years ago than it does now.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I never claimed that all civil wars have a religious aspect. You can keep on listing individual wars that didn't involve religion all you like. Considering that there were thousands of civil war in human history, you'd need more evidence than that.
    Well, they were the two that came immediatelyto mind when you mentioned civil wars - and both of them - ironically - had nothing to do with religion.

    You name some that did and we can have a 'look, see' and discuss.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    OK - let's look at the American Civil War then, seeing as he's a citizen of the USA.

    Was that because of religion?
    Do you want me to name civil wars that were caused by religion and then ask you if they weren't caused by religion?

    Or maybe posting a definition of "usually" would be quicker and easier for both of us?
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    (Original post by Prad)
    Do you want me to name civil wars that were caused by religion and then ask you if they weren't caused by religion?

    Or maybe posting a definition of "usually" would be quicker and easier for both of us?
    No need for sarcasm, my friend.

    I would just like some civil wars that were caused by religion to be named - as apparently, civil wars are usually caused by religion - according to a couple of you on this thread and that seems to be something of a sweeping generalisation.
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    I have a feeling the original thread starter was referring to current events rather than history, by the way.
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    France: War of Religions
    Netherlands: 80 Years' War
    Germany: 30 Years' War
    Northern Ireland

    Just of the top of my head..
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Well, they were the two that came immediatelyto mind when you mentioned civil wars - and both of them - ironically - had nothing to do with religion.

    You name some that did and we can have a 'look, see' and discuss.
    Bosnia
    Kosovo
    Chechnya
    Palestine
    Phillipines
    Kashmir
    Thailand
    Xinjiang
    Sudan (north vs. south, not north vs. Darfur)
    Nagorno-Karabakh
    Abkhazia

    All these civil wars are either happening right now or happened in the last 15 years.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    No need for sarcasm, my friend.
    Sorry - it's too hot..
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Bosnia
    Kosovo
    Chechnya
    Palestine
    Phillipines
    Kashmir
    Thailand
    Xinjiang
    Sudan (north vs. south, not north vs. Darfur)
    Nagorno-Karabakh
    Abkhazia

    All these civil wars are either happening right now or happened in the last 15 years.
    You can tell I've never studied Modern World History..
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    (Original post by Prad)
    You can tell I've never studied Modern World History..
    You don't have to study modern world history. Just watch the news.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Bosnia
    Kosovo
    Chechnya
    Palestine
    Phillipines
    Kashmir
    Thailand
    Xinjiang
    Sudan (north vs. south, not north vs. Darfur)
    Nagorno-Karabakh
    Abkhazia

    All these civil wars are either happening right now or happened in the last 15 years.
    No doubt about that - there are/have been civil wars in those places right enough - only thing is, were they are caused by religion?

    The wars that Prad referred to gave me cause to search for links. I came up with this one that headed the 'search' on google.

    http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history...chapter21.html

    It refers to wars in Europe that resulted from migration. So, whilst religion might have had some bearing on them, it was originally the migrants moving into areas that caused the problem - from there it is easy to put the blame on religion rather than racism!

    Northern Ireland is actually a perfect example of the above. From the settlement of Scots Presbyterians in the 17th centry as a deliberate ploy by the English government to ensure a 'loyal' tradition (political) the ramifications have led to it being seen as a religious conflict.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    No doubt about that - there are/have been civil wars in those places right enough - only thing is, were they are caused by religion?

    The wars that Prad referred to gave me cause to search for links. I came up with this one that headed the 'search' on google.

    http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history...chapter21.html

    It refers to wars in Europe that resulted from migration. So, whilst religion might have had some bearing on them, it was originally the migrants moving into areas that caused the problem - from there it is easy to put the blame on religion rather than racism!

    Northern Ireland is actually a perfect example of the above. From the settlement of Scots Presbyterians in the 17th centry as a deliberate ploy by the English government to ensure a 'loyal' tradition (political) the ramifications have led to it being seen as a religious conflict.
    By the same token weren't the problems at Nagorno Karabakh caused by the settlement of one racial group that was mainly muslim in another area which was predominantly christian, a settlement forced by Stalin. I can read up if you wish.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    No doubt about that - there are/have been civil wars in those places right enough - only thing is, were they are caused by religion?

    The wars that Prad referred to gave me cause to search for links. I came up with this one that headed the 'search' on google.

    http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history...chapter21.html

    It refers to wars in Europe that resulted from migration. So, whilst religion might have had some bearing on them, it was originally the migrants moving into areas that caused the problem - from there it is easy to put the blame on religion rather than racism!

    Northern Ireland is actually a perfect example of the above. From the settlement of Scots Presbyterians in the 17th centry as a deliberate ploy by the English government to ensure a 'loyal' tradition (political) the ramifications have led to it being seen as a religious conflict.
    To be fair though, most countries are made up of migrants from somewhere along the line..
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    (Original post by yawn)
    No doubt about that - there are/have been civil wars in those places right enough - only thing is, were they are caused by religion?
    You might want to read a bit more carefully.

    My original statement:

    Civil wars are usually caused by a combination of self-interest of elites and the identity of the people they are trying to influence. Since religion is a key aspect of most people's identity (especially in the third world), it's fair to say that religion plays a significant role in sparking off civil wars.
    Which part of that says that civil wars are caused by religion?
 
 
 

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