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The MAKEPOVERTYHISTORY campaign - What does it mean for you? watch

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    (Original post by Flukey)
    Well im not even goign to bother to argue with people with such arragant and stuck up views on helping out a poor country. :rolleyes: you both sound like completely un-sympathetic tossers. :rolleyes:
    still, id rather appear cold, calculated and REALISTIC than ignorant and blind.

    and here was me thinking it was a discussion of views. an argument you say?
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    (Original post by technik)
    still, id rather appear cold, calculated and REALISTIC than ignorant and blind.

    and here was me thinking it was a discussion of views. an argument you say?
    well it just pisses me off that ones view cans be so cold and shallow. fine i take back what i said, but i am stil goign to beg to differ, my opiinion is not going to change, as yours is not going to change either.
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    well it just pisses me off that ones view cans be so cold and shallow. fine i take back what i said, but i am stil goign to beg to differ, my opiinion is not going to change, as yours is not going to change either.
    i find your views shallow too.

    seems we're both a winner! :cool:
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    (Original post by technik)
    i find your views shallow too.

    seems we're both a winner! :cool:
    it seems we are!

    can we just put this behind us, i dont wish to fall out with you. plus you help me out quite a bit in the tech forum too
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    (Original post by cattericksmiler)
    Right... why will the Africans loose their jobs and starve??? You're living in some sort of dream world and are failing to understand the African economic issues. They have alot of export in Africa - thus alot of money. This money is going to pay off loans that they have already more than paid off. Reducing debt would mean less money need be spent on debts and instead can be used to build schools, more exports can be used internally to feed the Africans and the government can begin to prosper once again!!!
    And you understand African economic issues? :rolleyes: The main cost of schools doesn't come from building them; it comes from staffing and maintaining them. Giving African governments the ability to build schools will not give them the ability to maintain them. Furthermore, Africa doesn't have enough teachers to staff additional schools. Even if it did, how would it get these teachers to move to small rural villages where most Africans live?

    And what do you mean "they have a lot of exports in Africa"? If you give food to Africa for free, what incentive are you giving Africans to buy food from African farmers? By giving Africans aid, you're artificially lowering the price of products that are sold by Africans.

    African exports can increase only if Africa makes fundamental reforms to its economy. You cannot make those reforms for Africa, nor can you help Africa make those reforms. What incentive are you giving Africa to reform if you are make the African governments dependent on foreign aid for its budget and not on its own citizens?
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    Well im not even goign to bother to argue with people with such arragant and stuck up views on helping out a poor country. :rolleyes: you both sound like completely un-sympathetic tossers. :rolleyes:
    Yes, let's ignore everything contrary to your views just so you can get a warm feeling inside while harming the people you're supposedly trying to help.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Yes, let's ignore everything contrary to your views just so you can get a warm feeling inside while harming the people you're supposedly trying to help.
    oh be quiet, im not going to continue this argument, i have taken back my comment, so lets just agree to disagree. so what do you think should be done about africa? just leave it be to continue to get worst :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    it seems we are!

    can we just put this behind us, i dont wish to fall out with you. plus you help me out quite a bit in the tech forum too
    i wont "fall out" with you. i respect your entitlement to a view and stance and accept it, even though its different to mine.

    tomorrow there may be a thread where we agree and then the next day another where we dont. its just life.
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    (Original post by technik)
    i wont "fall out" with you. i respect your entitlement to a view and stance and accept it, even though its different to mine.

    tomorrow there may be a thread where we agree and then the next day another where we dont. its just life.
    yeah tis true, i have agreed on many things with you before, but this thread is a completely disagreement, and at the end of the day we can't do anything about our opinions. Hopefully there will be more threads where we agree
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    oh be quiet, im not going to continue this argument, i have taken back my comment, so lets just agree to disagree. so what do you think should be done about africa? just leave it be to continue to get worst :rolleyes:
    Just like we left Japan and South Korea to get worse, right? And look at how the poor Japanese and Koreans are starving without our aid.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Just like we left Japan and South Korea to get worse, right? And look at how the poor Japanese and Koreans are starving without our aid.
    think of the time difference, Africa has been a very poor country longer than Japan and Korea ever was.
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    think of the time difference, Africa has been a very poor country longer than Japan and Korea ever was.
    South Korea was one of the five poorest countries in the world in 1950.
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    think of the time difference, Africa has been a very poor country longer than Japan and Korea ever was.
    africa isnt a country.
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    (Original post by technik)
    africa isnt a country.
    sorry Africa the continent as a whole, has been poor way before 1950.
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    sorry Africa the continent as a whole, has been poor way before 1950.
    as has much of asia.

    still...dont hear much about them.

    goes back to the "do something, do anything" approach i spoke of. pick a place and try to do your bit
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    (Original post by Flukey)
    sorry Africa the continent as a whole, has been poor way before 1950.
    So was Korea. Korea has historically been worse off than China, and China's standard of living has consistently been one of the worst in the world for the last several centuries.
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    I often find that the people who talk about giving aid are the same people who condemn wealth. Talk about contradictory.

    Aid is wrong, it should only be given in times of a natural disaster and even than it is questionable since a government has a duty to its people and no one else.

    Aid harms economies. A recent report showed that for every 1% increase in aid there is a 3.65% retardation in GDP growth.

    Countries need free trade not hand outs. They should open up their economies.

    Many say they should protect their industries while they are developing. This is wrong as India shows. If you have a car industry and no one is competing with you, instead of investing they bribe the gov to keep their protection. The poor get shoddy and expensive products while the rich get bribes and massive markets. The more competition the better. It drives down prices, prevents corporate collusion (its much harder to fix prices with the more competitors in the market) and makes companies try and get the edge as they know they will go out of business if they do not. Protected industries have no incentive.

    Ghana in 1967 had an average per capita of $800, S. Korea had one of 550. Ghana restrcted trade while S. Korea opened up, invited businesses in, took advantage of its rel cheap labour, offered low taxes etc. Today Ghana's per capita income is 370 whilst S Korea's is 10,360.

    Once they have protected its very difficult to get rid of them becase of vested interests.

    Third world countires can play on their advanages thanks to free trade as E.Asian tygers did. They did not close off, they opened up. The reason why companies move is because of cheaper labour.

    Take for example this situation. Jane is not qualified but she can cook. John is a doctor and can cook and much better than Jane. But John does not do his cooking he pays Jane to do it. Why? It is far more profitbale for him to spend his time doing what is more productive for him - being a doctor. Meanwhile Jane gets money eventhough she is not the better cook. This explains why free trade works.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    South Korea was one of the five poorest countries in the world in 1950.

    Yes and North Korea was twice as rich in around 1960!! How things change.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Yes and North Korea was twice as rich in around 1960!! How things change.
    And this despite North Korea getting massive subsidies from China.
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    well, iam from Africa and this is what i have to say, i think that yes development starts from within, we have to make that effort too, but giving us money all the times does not help because it only goes to one place and a small fraction goes to what it was intended for.....
    so this is what i think....money should go out and help the ones that are dying of Hunger and Aid...TECHNIK or whatever he calls himself talks the way he does out of sheer ignorance...if he came and saw what i have seen and what others have seen he would see things in a different way...but hey i do not blame him.i just think that he is cold...really cold.oh yes and as for development money...let us work and build ourselves but help us where we cannot help ourselves.
    thank you FLUKEY for supporting us.
 
 
 
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