Turn on thread page Beta

"Pupils shine brightest at grammar schools" watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    yer but they do accept some less fee paying and in some cases ppl who pay no fees through scholarhips. I think that people should have the choice of where to send their children and that to pay for a better education is a fair choice, just like paying for private means you get better healthcare. I think that you should get a fair education for free on the state, afterall if someone is exceptional and wants to go to private scl but cant afford it I think just about every private school gives bursaries to ppl who can't afford it but are able and scholarships to the most able.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I think school is somewhere that class is not important. Everyone should be equal. Friendly rivalry is good, but only to an extent.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    1) Most of the eleven plus students in my class worked extremely hard on just passing it. Thus, our SATS results for that year were less than expected.
    2) My old arguments stand for this.

    Interestingly, the PISA report, which judged the education system of European countries judged Finland top....
    A COMPLETELY Comprehensive state system.
    I imagine one could find part of the PISA report flawed if one were to disect it. Bearing in mind also that in many ways Finland is a very different country to the one we find oursleves in.

    I know many people who did extremely little work for thier 11+ and so their SATs were not affected. Therefore it will be difficult to reach any conclusion on this matter.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by happysunshine)
    If you don't give the 'worse' students a good education, they have no jobs and we have to pay them benefits.
    But that is where are skilled work force will come from. So we won't have tpay them benefits.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    1) Comps are streamed and thus the argument of "having a school where everything is the same for everyone regardless of ability isn't a very good idea" is redundant.

    2) It works fine for Finland.
    So why are areas where there are no grammar schools, only comprehensives, underperforming?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    I imagine one could find part of the PISA report flawed if one were to disect it. Bearing in mind also that in many ways Finland is a very different country to the one we find oursleves in.
    Ooohh.... you've dodged the bullet very badly there;

    1) Do disect it, and then tell me the same.
    2) Vague and irrelevant.

    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    I know many people who did extremely little work for thier 11+ and so their SATs were not affected. Therefore it will be difficult to reach any conclusion on this matter.
    Indeed.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    So why are areas where there are no grammar schools, only comprehensives, underperforming?
    Like where?

    Essentially it doesn't really matter as I could say the same for some Grammars I know.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emzie)
    yer but they do accept some less fee paying and in some cases ppl who pay no fees through scholarhips. I think that people should have the choice of where to send their children and that to pay for a better education is a fair choice, just like paying for private means you get better healthcare. I think that you should get a fair education for free on the state, afterall if someone is exceptional and wants to go to private scl but cant afford it I think just about every private school gives bursaries to ppl who can't afford it but are able and scholarships to the most able.
    You're out of touch with the reality of things, bright students in crap schools won't even consider private schools/bursaries etc, usually because their parents won't. There's absolutely no way in hell my parents would have let me goto Manchester Grammar, and being an 11 year old, I wasn't exactly aware of what would be best for myself. Private healthcare is also ridiculous, why should people lucky enough to be born into wealthy families be able to secure better health and better futures for their children at the expense of others?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Unfortunately I need to go and see my team lose to Chelsea now.

    It was fun debating with you all. We can only hope that whatever happens, the education system of this country improves as a result.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    But that is where are skilled work force will come from. So we won't have tpay them benefits.
    Yeh I do think that some low-performing schools should become more vocational-based. In Germany, there are some completely vocational-based secondary schools, meaning that the skilled become more skilled.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Ooohh.... you've dodged the bullet very badly there;

    1) Do disect it, and then tell me the same.
    2) Vague and irrelevant.



    Indeed.
    How is the point that Finland is a different country to this one vague or irrelevant, it is clearly not. We are very different countries.

    Have you heard of the IAEEA, a much more respected body who undertake work similar to PISA, but have been doing so for 33 years. PISA's report os very flawed, too flawed to recite here. However:

    UK Participation in the test was very low in comparison with that in other countries. From the original sample selected, only 61 per cent. of UK schools agreed to participate, in comparison with 95 per cent. in France, Germany and Switzerland. The proportion of pupils who agreed to take part in the test once their school had agreed to participate was, at 81 per cent., the lowest in any of the countries. Taking those two types of non-response rates together, the UK had a response rate of only 48 per cent. of the original sample, compared with 90 per cent. in France, Germany and Switzerland. Common sense would suggest that it is the weaker schools and pupils who would refuse to participate.

    PISA also tested the age groups rather than the classes. As children in most of Europe are held back a year if they do not achieve certain standards, a bias against continental countries is again created.

    Maybe you should research Professor Prais.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by YouKnewThat!)
    Yeh I do think that some low-performing schools should become more vocational-based. In Germany, there are some completely vocational-based secondary schools, meaning that the skilled become more skilled.
    To me that that is a great idea.
    By no means is everyone acedemic. It is important to find the right lerning media for the indvidual. In that situation any can flourish into to success.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Unfortunately I need to go and see my team lose to Chelsea now.

    It was fun debating with you all. We can only hope that whatever happens, the education system of this country improves as a result.
    Oooh, leaving just as your main argument is undermined...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    fistpaste - coz that's the way life is! the state will never have enough money to provide the best for everyone, and I don't think they should either, I mean why people who have worked their backsides off to get good grased in school / uni and suffered all the stress this brings, and work there ass off for a highly paid job in which they have to work 14 hour days be taxed more than jo blog who dossed school, can't be bothered to put some effot in so ends up working in a supermarket. I think everyone should be taxed the same, and have a basic, sufficient level of education/healthcare avaliable to them for free, and then if they can afford it, can pay for better quality.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emzie)
    fistpaste - coz that's the way life is! the state will never have enough money to provide the best for everyone, and I don't think they should either, I mean why people who have worked their backsides off to get good grased in school / uni and suffered all the stress this brings, and work there ass off for a highly paid job in which they have to work 14 hour days be taxed more than jo blog who dossed school, can't be bothered to put some effot in so ends up working in a supermarket. I think everyone should be taxed the same, and have a basic, sufficient level of education/healthcare avaliable to them for free, and then if they can afford it, can pay for better quality.
    Some people work like hell, just to be able to have an sort of respected job. I think it is wrong to judge that all people working in a supermarket, suggesting that all of them couldn't be bothered to do better without knowing their story.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    sorry for making the generalisation. I still think those who earn more shouldnt be taxed more than those who earn less.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emzie)
    fistpaste - coz that's the way life is! the state will never have enough money to provide the best for everyone, and I don't think they should either, I mean why people who have worked their backsides off to get good grased in school / uni and suffered all the stress this brings, and work there ass off for a highly paid job in which they have to work 14 hour days be taxed more than jo blog who dossed school, can't be bothered to put some effot in so ends up working in a supermarket. I think everyone should be taxed the same, and have a basic, sufficient level of education/healthcare avaliable to them for free, and then if they can afford it, can pay for better quality.
    Because some people have crap parents, goto crap schools and end up crap. SOme people have great parents who teach them the greek alphabet at 2, and have them fluent in 3 languages by 7, and have them doing alevels at 12. Unfortunately nobody can choose their parents, and if your parents are crap, and your life is crap, you shouldn't be denied the chance to change things. Private education, healthcare and class systems make this WORSE, because then the children of rich parents get the best teachers, the best resources and the easiest lives, at the expense of already disadvantaged children.

    Tell me, if you have to work in poundstretcher 5 hours a day to support your family because without that income you'd be on the streets, and as a consequence you don't perform well in exams, are you still a lazy dosser? No, actually, such people work a hell of a lot harder than you do I suspect. I don't think you could do their work, I can tell you it's alot harder to stack shelves than pass an Alevel.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emzie)
    sorry for making the generalisation. I still think those who earn more shouldnt be taxed more than those who earn less.
    that is how the economy goes round. Would you have those who earn less taxed more?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emzie)
    sorry for making the generalisation. I still think those who earn more shouldnt be taxed more than those who earn less.
    Okay *Off the subject* but people who are on benefits should be forced to do community service.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As for regressive taxing, yes, there's an idea! Let's make the poor *even* poorer, that will allow them to improve their prospects.
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: December 22, 2003
Poll
Cats or dogs?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.