"Pupils shine brightest at grammar schools"

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Sire
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#141
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#141
(Original post by Harry Potter)
It builds character .
So does a bit of construcive praise. Which would you rather?
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yawn1
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#142
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#142
(Original post by Sar)
I go to a grammar school and the standard of teaching's great. I'm so lucky to have gone there really. Though still think it's unfair that kids are tested at 11 and then bunged in a school appropriate to their ability at that age - some people develop later, esp boys. Maybe there should be more fluidity in the system?
There is more fluidity in the system - they're called Comprehensive schools!
This is one of the main advantages of a comprehensive school - because of differing ages of intellectual maturity the kids can go into the top sets when appropriate.
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yawn1
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#143
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#143
(Original post by Harry Potter)
I don't think I know many people who have been 'scarred for life' because they weren't in the top 10% of the country when they were 11 years old.



Yeah, I don't know any state schools that do this in my area.
Perhaps Harry, your experience of meeting people who have been 'scarred for life' is somewhat limited, seeing as you are at a grammar school. :rolleyes:
These people who have indeed suffered from being labelled as not 'clever enough' to go to a grammar at the age of 11 go through life trying to prove to others that they are intelligent. They are the ones who excel at quiz nights etc.
Those who have been to grammars also try to prove to other how intelligent they are. They go through life saying 'when I was at my GRAMMAR school...' They are not content to talk about their school days unless they get the opportunity to inform their listeners that it was a grammar!
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rah
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#144
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#144
(Original post by yawn1)
They go through life saying 'when I was at my GRAMMAR school...' They are not content to talk about their school days unless they get the opportunity to inform their listeners that it was a grammar!
i never experienced that at all.

i have found than oxbridge graduates cannot go more than 15 seconds without mentioning it though
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Ben.S.
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#145
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#145
I'm against them partly because I couldn't go to one - there aren't any where I live. There aren't enough of them to provide places for everyone who is eligible to attend - so they're a bit pointless.

Ben
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androidkiller
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#146
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#146
It's a shame we can't have schools where everyone is taught according to ability. As it stands the best and worst pupils miss out as schools focus on getting those 5 A*-C grades that will bump them up the league tables.

At my school (a comprehensive) I found that I was was not stretched until A-level, and that was with taking 5 (inc General Studies) and a Further Maths AS too. Even then I managed to drop only 5 UMS marks in my 5 AS subjects.

I would have liked to go into more depth but my school is stretching itself by providing Further Maths by distance learning/ visits by tutors for Uni.

I know not everyone will need the same education as me, one of my friends failed to get over a D at GCSE, but I am glad of being in such a mixed environment. If Univeristy doesn't knock it out of me, I think I will be able to fit into society better than being part of an elite.

So why can't everyone just have their own education in the nearest school? Because there aren't enough teachers and not enough money to pay them or provide facilities. This while some families get in excess of £30,000 in benefit and work at the same time. Fair?
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Sar
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#147
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#147
(Original post by yawn1)
There is more fluidity in the system - they're called Comprehensive schools!
This is one of the main advantages of a comprehensive school - because of differing ages of intellectual maturity the kids can go into the top sets when appropriate.

Yeh, that's true, but I know from experience that the atmosphere is a grammar greatly encourages learning at a high level, more so than a comp - something that, if a child develops an ability to cope with after the age of 11, they shouldn't be denied.
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LH
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#148
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#148
(Original post by Bigcnee)
Leaving the argument because I have better things to do.
You're response seems to be clutching at straws somewhat. Nothing you said properly addressed what I said. You just came up with some random source which didn't make much sense. I leave it for you to consider an appropriate response.

BTW...

Villa 2 - 1 Chelsea!!!!
in layman's terms, the PISA report is *******s
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LH
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#149
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#149
(Original post by yawn1)
There is more fluidity in the system - they're called Comprehensive schools!
This is one of the main advantages of a comprehensive school - because of differing ages of intellectual maturity the kids can go into the top sets when appropriate.
I don't think a one-size-fits-all system could work.
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Ben.S.
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#150
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#150
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I don't think a one-size-fits-all system could work.
Why not?

Ben
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LH
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#151
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#151
(Original post by Ben.S.)
I'm against them partly because I couldn't go to one - there aren't any where I live. There aren't enough of them to provide places for everyone who is eligible to attend - so they're a bit pointless.

Ben
That's only because so many were closed, our parents' era was almost completely selective, with grammars, technology colleges and secondary moderns. Unfortunatly, only one type of those great schools still survives in its true form.
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LH
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#152
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#152
(Original post by Ben.S.)
Why not?

Ben
Some people have special needs. I would say the exceptionally bright fall into this catergory.
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Ben.S.
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#153
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#153
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Some people have special needs. I would say the exceptionally bright fall into this catergory.
Yes - but there are more of them than places at grammar schools!

Ben
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Ben.S.
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#154
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#154
(Original post by Ben.S.)
Yes - but there are more of them than places at grammar schools!

Ben
Plus, you don't have to be exceptionally bright to go to one.

Ben
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LH
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#155
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#155
(Original post by Ben.S.)
Plus, you don't have to be exceptionally bright to go to one.

Ben
You have to do better in an exam than hundreds of your peers.
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Ben.S.
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#156
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#156
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
You have to do better in an exam than hundreds of your peers.
Yes - lots of people do. 'Peers' is a broad category. I'm sure that I did better in exams (although I didn't take an 11+, or whatever it's called) than hundreds of my peers, without having my abilities so 'nurtured'. I think real intellect is self-developed and shouldn't require such coaching. I went to a good comprehensive school, so I don't really have any idea of what a 'bad' one would be like - or if it would've made any difference at all. I don't know of any failing comprehensives around here (well - with the exception of one, but we all know why that is...) or of any grammar schools. I wonder if that's purely coincidental?

Ben
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Bigcnee
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#157
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#157
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
in layman's terms, the PISA report is *******s
I find it hard to believe that you could make a statement without backing it up with anything other than irrelevant b*******.

Well, I guess it shows that Comprehensive system is preferable, which contradicts your beliefs.
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Harry Potter
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#158
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#158
(Original post by yawn1)
Perhaps Harry, your experience of meeting people who have been 'scarred for life' is somewhat limited, seeing as you are at a grammar school. :rolleyes:
That is rubbish. I know plenty of people outside grammar schools and not one gives a damn that they weren't accepted to one. I think you're overestimating the importance the majority of people place on being considered intelligent. Do half the population regard themselves as inferior because they got less than average o-level results? There are more important things in life than being 'educated' or 'sucessful' in the eyes of society.


(Original post by yawn1)
Those who have been to grammars also try to prove to other how intelligent they are. They go through life saying 'when I was at my GRAMMAR school...' They are not content to talk about their school days unless they get the opportunity to inform their listeners that it was a grammar!
I think, perhaps, you have yourself a bit confused. You're thinking of independant schools. Not one pupil I know at my school is arrogant about they're education or regards themselves in any way as superior to those who received an education at a comp. If anything, they are embaressed to mention it in general conversation - because it's an all-boys school, or 'posh', or because they think they'll be labelled a 'geek'.

I haven't noticed this phenomenon when talking to my parents either :confused: :confused: :confused:


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LH
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#159
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#159
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I find it hard to believe that you could make a statement without backing it up with anything other than irrelevant b*******.

Well, I guess it shows that Comprehensive system is preferable, which contradicts your beliefs.
Irrelevant *******s, Professor Prais' in depth report? I quote Parliamentary analysis on the topic, nothing irrelevant.
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Bigcnee
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#160
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#160
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Irrelevant *******s, Professor Prais' in depth report? I quote Parliamentary analysis on the topic, nothing irrelevant.
Is it any surprise that these flaws in the report were "shown up". It showed British education to be a shambles, which it duly is.
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