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    (Original post by allisandro)
    I can understand it - if someone says that they find "the majority" of doctors rude, then if you are doctor, you would be upset that someone assumed without meeting you personally that you would also be rude. It's annoying to be stereotyped or tarred with the same brush. I think that is what Jamie is trying to divert.

    The same goes for any profession, i think.
    But no one said "the majority" are rude.
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    (Original post by allisandro)
    I can understand it - if someone says that they find "the majority" of doctors rude, then if you are doctor, you would be upset that someone assumed without meeting you personally that you would also be rude. It's annoying to be stereotyped or tarred with the same brush. I think that is what Jamie is trying to divert.

    The same goes for any profession, i think.
    I had a rather interesting conversation with my GP before he left for annual leave about this very issue and he acknowledged that many of his colleagues were unnecessarily defensive when it came to criticism of their profession. He also acknowledged that many doctors are very reluctant to criticise colleagues, even when there is a reason to.
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    I agree it is patronising. i don't know much about medicine but I know when someone is rude to me, or when my appointment time is hopelessly long.
    Who are you meant to complain to other than the person you see and hope they pass it on.
    My dad was meant to have a hernia op and it was meant to be done within 6 months and it took years. He was complaining to the GP and the consultant and each were blaming the other. It was only when he emailed the person who does statistics for waiting times in our area (because he clearly wasn't included on it) that something was done. You can't even complain to the hospital if you don't know which hospital your operation will take place in.

    I'm not saying that it is the individual doctors fault all the time but theres definitely some problems with the NHS its ridiculous that the service you receive down to how long you have to wait for things like scans (For example my mum had to wait 9 months for an MRI scan but my friend had one done within 2 months) seem to depend on what surgery you go to. And yes the doctors are probably the ones that get it in the neck cos they are on the front line but thats the way it goes.
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    My Mam had been suffering from pain in her abdomen since about May last year. She had to go to the doctors 1-2 times a week. After seeing loads of doctors and being told she had everything from IBS to 'there's nothing wrong with you - go home' it wasn't til November that a doctor actually got her on the bed and felt her abdomen. This is when he felt a growth, sent her to hospital that night and she needs scans and tests until she had an operation. It turned out she had tumours on each ovary, one 8cm and one 12cm :eek: How can a doctor who has trained for many years miss this? If a doctor had taken the time to feel her abdomen in May, then she wouldn't have had to suffer in such pain for all them months. Thank god the tumours were not cancerous, but if they were then I dread to think how far it could have spread in that time.

    To be honest, most doctors I meet are OK, and before Jamie and Helenia think I'm insulting them, I honestly am not. I'm just asking those who are training in medicine, how it could have taken so long for the doctors to actually have a feel and find the problem? It's pretty bad service my Mam recieved, and as well as being physically damaging, she was worrying about her mind, as she was constantly being told she had nothing wrong. I just think that some doctors lack maybe the 'common sense' and rely on past cases. I mean how hard would it have been to ask my Mam to hop on the bed and let them see if they can fele anything?
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    (Original post by viviki)
    I agree it is patronising. i don't know much about medicine but I know when someone is rude to me, or when my appointment time is hopelessly long.
    Who are you meant to complain to other than the person you see and hope they pass it on.
    My dad was meant to have a hernia op and it was meant to be done within 6 months and it took years. He was complaining to the GP and the consultant and each were blaming the other. It was only when he emailed the person who does statistics for waiting times in our area (because he clearly wasn't included on it) that something was done. You can't even complain to the hospital if you don't know which hospital your operation will take place in.

    I'm not saying that it is the individual doctors fault all the time but theres definitely some problems with the NHS its ridiculous that the service you receive down to how long you have to wait for things like scans (For example my mum had to wait 9 months for an MRI scan but my friend had one done within 2 months) seem to depend on what surgery you go to. And yes the doctors are probably the ones that get it in the neck cos they are on the front line but thats the way it goes.

    Hmm - and you think individual doctors are to blame for this?

    I mean tell me if I'm wrong, but I think our lovely Government might have a little more to do with it...
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    (Original post by * gemchicken *)
    My Mam had been suffering from pain in her abdomen since about May last year. She had to go to the doctors 1-2 times a week. After seeing loads of doctors and being told she had everything from IBS to 'there's nothing wrong with you - go home' it wasn't til November that a doctor actually got her on the bed and felt her abdomen. This is when he felt a growth, sent her to hospital that night and she needs scans and tests until she had an operation. It turned out she had tumours on each ovary, one 8cm and one 12cm :eek: How can a doctor who has trained for many years miss this? If a doctor had taken the time to feel her abdomen in May, then she wouldn't have had to suffer in such pain for all them months. Thank god the tumours were not cancerous, but if they were then I dread to think how far it could have spread in that time.

    To be honest, most doctors I meet are OK, and before Jamie and Helenia think I'm insulting them, I honestly am not. I'm just asking those who are training in medicine, how it could have taken so long for the doctors to actually have a feel and find the problem? It's pretty bad service my Mam recieved, and as well as being physically damaging, she was worrying about her mind, as she was constantly being told she had nothing wrong. I just think that some doctors lack maybe the 'common sense' and rely on past cases. I mean how hard would it have been to ask my Mam to hop on the bed and let them see if they can fele anything?
    You're right all doctors are *****. Including the one who saved my 25 year old friend from an increadably aggressive form of breast cancer, when lay people were telling her 'it's just a cyst'.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    You're right all doctors are *****. Including the one who saved my 25 year old friend from an increadably aggressive form of breast cancer, when lay people were telling her 'it's just a cyst'.
    No, I didn't say that. I know someone would take it the wrong way. I'm sorry to hear about your 25 year old friend, and I hope she's better. But it just seemed completely ridiculous that my Mam had to suffer for 6 months before doctors gave her a physical examination. I mean wouldn't that have been the most obvious thing to do?!?! Also I don't appreciate being referred to as a 'lay' person.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    You're right all doctors are *****. Including the one who saved my 25 year old friend from an increadably aggressive form of breast cancer, when lay people were telling her 'it's just a cyst'.
    Oh and if you bothered to read my post properly you would have seen I said 'some' not 'all'.
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    OK then - who is worse? The doctor who misses something (and often because a patient hasn't benn 100% honest), or the patient who walks away knowing the something is wrong?

    The way the NHS is being shaped currently, as a patient-centred service (as dictated by patient bodies and expert patient groups), then I find it insulting that people will gripe and whinge, but not get involved. Things don't changed themselves, and if you have a problem with the way other patients are dictating your NHS is shaped and ran, then there's only one thing for it - stop whinging and get involved!
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    (Original post by * gemchicken *)
    Oh and if you bothered to read my post properly you would have seen I said 'some' not 'all'.
    You all said that "most doctors I meet are ok"! Wow, I can't believe that anyone could intepret that as you saying "all doctors are ****."
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    OK then - who is worse? The doctor who misses something (and often because a patient hasn't benn 100% honest), or the patient who walks away knowing the something is wrong?

    The way the NHS is being shaped currently, as a patient-centred service (as dictated by patient bodies and expert patient groups), then I find it insulting that people will gripe and whinge, but not get involved. Things don't changed themselves, and if you have a problem with the way other patients are dictating your NHS is shaped and ran, then there's only one thing for it - stop whinging and get involved!
    Yes I know that doctors can miss something when the patient is no 100% honest, but my Mam was 100% honest, all the time she went to see all the doctors and still not one of them physically examined her. I just think this is really bad service, I mean if it was your Mam wouldn't you be annoyed?

    I'm sorry you find me insulting with my 'griping and whinging' :rolleyes: but you still haven't answered my question, if you had a patient come and see you with abdominal pains, then would you or would you not physically examine them?
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    (Original post by * gemchicken *)
    Oh and if you bothered to read my post properly you would have seen I said 'some' not 'all'.
    Some, or 'one or two'?
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    (Original post by StrangeKitten)
    You all said that "most doctors I meet are ok"! Wow, I can't believe that anyone could intepret that as you saying "all doctors are ****."
    I know :eek: hehe, things got twisted here.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    Hmm - and you think individual doctors are to blame for this?

    I mean tell me if I'm wrong, but I think our lovely Government might have a little more to do with it...
    No you are choosing to miss the point. I'm not saying individual doctors are responsible I'm saying that people blame doctors because who else are they to blame. And all doctors arent blameless. I realise a lot of GPs and consultants are stressed but in the same way that some patients take out their frustrations out on doctors by moaning about wait times the doctors take out their frustrations on the patients by being grumpy *******s. if you are ill the last thing you need is for someone to be unsympathetic and rude.
    Its the doctors job to treat the problem but its also their job to treat their patients in a customer friendly and calm way.

    There are plenty of good doctors around I'm not saying there aren't in fact I gave my Sheffield doctor as an example of agood doctor. Even if she doesnt know whats wrong she is prepared to do tests, always helpful and always a sympathetic listener. But there are a hell of a lot of doctors that aren't I would say in my experience its about 50:50 and thats unacceptable. If I work in call centre I might think half the customers are complaining ******s but I certainly don't let them know I think that. I listen to them and try to do my best and that is my job. The service side of a doctors job is exactly the same. Being rude is completely unacceptable and the consequences of bad service can be far worse because it can put people off attending the doctors when they have serious illnesses, and the mistakes doctors can make by being unapproachable and not listening to symptoms can be very bad.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    Some, or 'one or two'?
    By saying 'some' in my Mam's case, it was 7 out of the 8 doctors in the surgery who didn't physically examine her, it wasn't until she saw the 8th doctor, for the first time, he felt her abdomen and found the growth. I just think thats really shocking. :eek:
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    (Original post by StrangeKitten)
    You all said that "most doctors I meet are ok"! Wow, I can't believe that anyone could intepret that as you saying "all doctors are ****."
    Because this is nothing more than scaremongering, and isn't an accurate reflection of reality.

    But if you think it is, I just hope you don't need a doctor anytime soon...

    And to the person who said that lawyers don't protect their own - I think you need to get some legal experience! The Bar is terrible for closing ranks to protect it's own interest - it's what happens when a profession self regulates (as medicine also does).

    If you're a truely ***** doctor, you take your chances - there are plenty of whistle blowers out their - pick up the BMJ and have a read! And if you think that we look after our own, then explain Roy Meadows being found guilty. A man who has without doubt save the lifes of thousands of Children - does his recent **** ups detract from this - yes, people just know him as the dodgy stats guy. Tragic really.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    No you are choosing to miss the point. I'm not saying individual doctors are responsible I'm saying that people blame doctors because who else are they to blame. And all doctors arent blameless. I realise a lot of GPs and consultants are stressed but in the same way that some patients take out their frustrations out on doctors by moaning about wait times the doctors take out their frustrations on the patients by being grumpy *******s. if you are ill the last thing you need is for someone to be unsympathetic and rude.
    Its the doctors job to treat the problem but its also their job to treat their patients in a customer friendly and calm way.

    There are plenty of good doctors around I'm not saying there aren't in fact I gave my Sheffield doctor as an example of agood doctor. Even if she doesnt know whats wrong she is prepared to do tests, always helpful and always a sympathetic listener. But there are a hell of a lot of doctors that aren't I would say in my experience its about 50:50 and thats unacceptable. If I work in call centre I might think half the customers are complaining ******s but I certainly don't let them know I think that. I listen to them and try to do my best and that is my job. The service side of a doctors job is exactly the same. Being rude is completely unacceptable and the consequences of bad service can be far worse because it can put people off attending the doctors when they have serious illnesses, and the mistakes doctors can make by being unapproachable and not listening to symptoms can be very bad.
    And there are plenty of *****:
    Lawyers
    Waitresses
    shop assistants
    Accountants
    HCAs
    Civil Servants
    MPs
    Pilots
    bus drivers
    etc.

    Lets start 1001 threads slating them each individually, shall we?

    I stand by my comment that if you can't be arsed to speak up, why do you expect anyone to listen?
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    Don't far less doctors get disciplined than nurses. Thats what my friend who is a nurse has told me but I don't know about it from a doctors side.

    Roy Meadows was involved in cases that were so much in the public eye what else could they do. You're not telling me that if these cases had had a lower profile the outcome wouldn't have been different because I don't believe it frankly.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    And to the person who said that lawyers don't protect their own - I think you need to get some legal experience! The Bar is terrible for closing ranks to protect it's own interest - it's what happens when a profession self regulates (as medicine also does).
    Who said that?

    I said that I'm certainly willing to accept that there are some pompous and amoral lawyers.
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    Doctors in general (I'm not saying all or the majority) tend to have massive superiority and self-satisfied issues. I worked on a hospital ward as a caterer in year 12 at weekends and some of the doctors were blatantly rude to me - kind of looked down a bit on me. One complete ***** came into the ward kitchen and said "2 teas no sugar quickly" and I went "err, my job isn't to wait on you - you know where the tea and coffee is" and she complained to my boss about me! The student doctors/newly qualified ones were the WORST for arrogance. How sad.
 
 
 
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