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    (Original post by Hanzing)
    If a person can academically acheive the grades to get on there desired course why shouldnt they take it? - surely this qualifies them as academically able in the eyes of the university and the course.
    Aside from the fact I'd like to see a streamlining of university courses, your original point was "Everyone does have the right to higher education". Not everyone can academically achieve the grades to get on there desired course , discounting the assertion that higher/university education is a right.
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    (Original post by Evil Muffin)
    I would lay part of the blame on unstimulating GCSE science. I attained a rather paltry grade at GCSE despite having A's in almost all the other subjects (I was supposed to get a B....) probably due to the dull and incoherent teaching (my school) and lifeless course content.

    I actually find the astronomy/space aspects of Physics interesting and would liked to have gone into it in more depth, but the course didn't allow for that. GCSE is aimed at teaching basic knowledge of the subject but it doesn't teach about how science can create innovative things of the future. Perhaps they should just show more sci-fi films....

    And I don't think blowing up stuff to look 'cool' will help the subject's future.
    Ditto i hated GCSE science i always preferred calculations etc reason why i took a-level maths, i got CC in science and A's and B's in everything else i sjut couldnt satnd it.

    Looking back now i would of liked to haev done a-level physics it would of combined well with my maths a-level and i would of prolly of liked.

    But becuase of my horrible expierience at GCSE it put me right OFF!!! why do i wanna learn about biomass pyramids or wotever........... (no offenfce to people who biology or chemistry jsut not my cup of tea)

    I think better and more stimulating teaching at GCSE level is definatley the way forward!
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    (Original post by strawberry_wise)
    who decided that people doing so-called "mickey mouse" degrees had lower academic ablility anyways?!

    I got 13 GCSEs at A*/A and 6 AS levels at A and I suppose some of you would judge my chosen degree as "mickey mouse". But I'm just doing a subject that I have an interest in that is related to the career that I want. As it should be.

    If people want to do physics degrees, let them. I was pretty good at physics but it didn't appeal. Such is life.
    I don't suppose anybody would attack your choice if you made it specifically in order to get where you want to go. I don't like the idea of idiots doing slack-arsed courses with no idea of where to go next. I have no idea where to go next either, but I'm not doing a ridiculous joke of a course! Incidentally, what are you doing?

    Ben
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    I think better and more stimulating teaching at GCSE level is definatley the way forward!
    What do you propose?

    Ben
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    What do you propose?

    Ben
    Some schools can barely afford multimedia suites, I think quite a few attempts to 'jazz up science" will be met with funding problems unless the government specifically piles lots of cash into one area.
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    (Original post by Miles)
    Some schools can barely afford multimedia suites, I think quite a few attempts to 'jazz up science" will be met with funding problems unless the government specifically piles lots of cash into one area.
    To be frank, I don't see how computers could help anyway - what else do people reckon would 'jazz up' GCSE science a bit? 'Interesting' science might, unfortunately, be seriously lacking in the details you need to learn to further youself in the subject. Either that, or too complicated for people to understand/appreciate at GCSE level. People here seem to be complaining about the content of the courses and, to be fair to teachers, some of it you really can't make interesting - like pyramids of biomass etc. GCSE geography (I found, anyway) was made more interesting by all the death and destruction in it. AS was a boring shock - welcome to 'fluvial systems' and the excitement of 'coastal management'.

    Ben
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    What do you propose?

    Ben
    For a start alot of people do dual science i think students should be given a choice of which two sections to cover rather thanit all be forced on them, least then they can choose there two least bad or favourit choices depending on which way you look at it.

    Using pratical demonstrations aswell, it doesnt cost mcuh to get some of that jelly stuff (shows how muchi listened in science lol) get some cotton wool buds swab ur hands then putit onthe jessy to see wot grows? please tell me wot the jelly is cos its snnoying me not remembering the name.........

    Although this aint jazzing it up itp erhaps gives them a little more choice and it seem less more of a compulsory subject and perhaps students will dread it a little less making them abit more open to it at the start? rather than just thinkign straight away this is boring hard and compulsory i dont wanna do it.
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    For a start alot of people do dual science i think students should be given a choice of which two sections to cover rather thanit all be forced on them, least then they can choose there two least bad or favourit choices depending on which way you look at it.

    Using pratical demonstrations aswell, it doesnt cost mcuh to get some of that jelly stuff (shows how muchi listened in science lol) get some cotton wool buds swab ur hands then putit onthe jessy to see wot grows? please tell me wot the jelly is cos its snnoying me not remembering the name.........

    Although this aint jazzing it up itp erhaps gives them a little more choice and it seem less more of a compulsory subject and perhaps students will dread it a little less making them abit more open to it at the start? rather than just thinkign straight away this is boring hard and compulsory i dont wanna do it.
    It's called agar.

    I don't think that people should be able to choose to drop a science before they even start studying it 'properly' - that's a bit too restrictive, I feel. The way to get more kids interested in science surely cannot be to let them drop bits of it when they are 14! That's not really the right way of going about giving people 'more choice', I don't think!

    Ben
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    Yeh but forcing a kid to do 3 modules of science when he absolutley hates one is likely to put him off it all togther!

    No matter what you say when your 14 theres always some part of science you enjoy and i think at 14 you should be able to continue into taht particulary subject within science.
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    No i dont me drop it meant there pick the two modules they want to do if they do dual or single scicence instead of just a taster from each. Read my paost again, im srry if i didnt make it clear.

    Thanks for remind the name of the jelly
    But that would mean only doing two of biology, physics and chemistry wouldn't it?

    Ben
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    Yeh but forcing a kid to do 3 modules of science when he absolutley hates one is likely to put him off it all togther!

    No matter what you say when your 14 theres always some part of science you enjoy and i think at 14 you should be able to continue into taht particulary subject within science.
    I see - you realised!
    'Unfortunately', if you enjoy science (any part) then you do actually need a basic (or better, in most cases) grounding in pretty much all of the concepts covered at GCSE in biology, physics, chemistry and maths (except maybe ecology...which can go to hell). Later on you'll find that the distinction between areas of science you traditionally thought of as separate becomes increasingly hazy - there aren't any boundaries in reality; everyone learns from each other in order to make progress.

    Ben
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    If a person can academically acheive the grades to get on there desired course why shouldnt they take it? - surely this qualifies them as academically able in the eyes of the university and the course.
    But some courses have almost no entry requirements.
    Are you trying to say someone who goes to university only with 140 points and no special circumstances is academically able?
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    (Original post by Goody1)
    Yeh but forcing a kid to do 3 modules of science when he absolutley hates one is likely to put him off it all togther!

    No matter what you say when your 14 theres always some part of science you enjoy and i think at 14 you should be able to continue into taht particulary subject within science.
    i think this could be due to crap teaching actually, most of my science lessons were bloody boring, I just had to do my own reading to keep myself interested in the subjects!
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    (Original post by Ben.S.)
    I see - you realised!
    'Unfortunately', if you enjoy science (any part) then you do actually need a basic (or better, in most cases) grounding in pretty much all of the concepts covered at GCSE in biology, physics, chemistry and maths (except maybe ecology...which can go to hell). Later on you'll find that the distinction between areas of science you traditionally thought of as separate becomes increasingly hazy - there aren't any boundaries in reality; everyone learns from each other in order to make progress.

    Ben
    Must admit I've never quite understood the English way of teaching science. I did Scottish qualifications and chose to do Standard Grades in Biology and Physics (amongst others!). The Biology was essentially completely useless to me and I can't really see me using anything I learned from it ever again (except maybe as trivia in a pub quiz!). Still, I was very glad to have been able to choose which sciences I wanted to do, rather than having them all forced on me and just choosing "how much" science I wanted to do.
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    Am I the only one who found demonstrations of "isn't science fun, look, we can do this!" stuff (pretty explosions and gloop etc) somewhat patronising?

    Having said that, I was lucky enough to have a school where we could afford decent practical classes anyway - stuff that related to the course and was interesting. I still think our 2nd year Chemistry practicals when we were doing reactivity series were the best though!
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    (Original post by PQ)
    It's probably worth pointing out that one of the problems facing physics and chemistry and to some extent biology student numbers is caused by the massive increase in medicine places over the last 8 years or so.
    That's an interesting point. I don't think it was true in my year (I didn't know anyone in physics, or any of the people I knew in Chemistry, applying for medicine), but you're right it probably is true generally. Ah well, I suppose medicine is better than nothing. :p:
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    (Original post by PQ)
    When it comes to inteersting/exciting science lessons the one that turned me on to science involved zero equipment.

    It was in yr 12/13 and our teacher simply started the lesson off by stating the world was flat...and we all had to argue and think of evidence to prove otherwise.
    That sounds like an stimulating premise for a lesson, because it can involve everyone in using their intuition to form hypotheses, which is an important part of science. Sounds kind of like PBL.

    "Problem-based learning is a pedagogical strategy for posing significant, context specific, real world situations, and providing resources, guidance, and instruction to students as they develop content knowledge and problem-solving skills. The students collaborate to study the issues of a problem as they strive to create viable solutions.

    PBL is a method of teaching, that challenges students to learn by working co-operatively in groups to seek solutions to real world problems. These problems are used to engage students curiosity and initiate learning the subject matter. PBL prepares students to think critically and analytically, and to find and use appropriate learning resources. PBL is an active, discovery-based approach to learning, in which students work together on cases and problems to learn the content of a course."


    http://www.physsci.heacademy.ac.uk/R...ail.aspx?id=27

    PBL seems to be gaining in popularity. I think I read recently of an attempt to teach an entire physics degree by PBL. While I think it's going to be useful for a couple hours a week, I still think traditional lectures will have to remain to impart sufficient theoretical knowledge, at least for academically ambitious students. Perhaps PBL is a good way to get people into more vocational science degrees.
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    (Original post by edders)
    http://www.hesa.ac.uk/holisdocs/pubi...ubject0304.csv

    Looking at this table on the subjects modern students are studying, is anyone else worried that there are a mere 13,360 students (total) in physics, while other (argubaly less strategically important) subjects have much more. For instance, 'cinematics & photography' has 12,035 students, almost as many as physics; psychology has 64,480; American studies 4,430.

    I'm not thinking we should have fewer students in these subjects necessarily, but perhaps more in physics and science, maths, technology generally. Is Britain putting its future economic and scientific power in jeopardy?

    I blame the state of our science teaching in schools. Combined science is a joke, and doesn't prepare you for A-Level.
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    (Original post by Fluffy)
    I blame the state of our science teaching in schools. Combined science is a joke, and doesn't prepare you for A-Level.
    I did dual award science and found physics A-level entirely reasonable.
    sure I had to learn stuff some of the separate scientists didnt (or topics they could revise as oppose tolearn...), but given enough work it was easy.

    Physics, my friends, is easy.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    I did dual award science and found physics A-level entirely reasonable.
    sure I had to learn stuff some of the separate scientists didnt (or topics they could revise as oppose tolearn...), but given enough work it was easy.

    Physics, my friends, is easy.
    I was in the first year to do combined science - we only did one physics module - 'waves'. Not really a good foundation!

    The chem content was a bit thin on the ground too - in our first chem A-Level lecture, the only person who knew what a mole was was someone who had moved to our 6th from from a school that did single sciences. Now that is dodge!
 
 
 
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